Discussion:
Hossenfelder and pseudoskeptics
(too old to reply)
jillery
2024-05-06 04:39:49 UTC
Permalink
The following link is to an 8-minute Youtube video of Sabine
Hossenfelder expressing her concerns about flat-earthers aka
flearthers:


************************************
@1:04
But it's not just a matter of misunderstanding. If you believe that
the Earth is flat you also have to believe in a global conspiracy
that's hiding the truth for no particular reason.

@3:04
To me flat earthers are the first symptom of a much bigger problem.
They show us what happens when people realize they can't understand
modern science, don't trust scientists, and therefore throw out even
the most basic scientific knowledge on the rationale of skepticism.
*************************************

The above is similar to my concerns about pseudoskeptics generally,
while Sabine excuses those who don't do science themselves:

**********************************
@3:23
Flat earthers are somewhat extreme in that they're actually throwing
out evidence that they could test themselves if they weren't so bad at
science. But the underlying problem is much deeper because in most of
modern science the average person can't test evidence for themselves.
**********************************

While I agree doing "modern science" is beyond the financial and
logistical resources of the average person, I disagree that's an
appropriate test. Just as people don't need to be an automotive
engineer to understand and appreciate the merits of good automotive
design, they also don't need to be professional scientists in order to
understand and appreciate the evidence on which scientific theories
are based.

When Sabine says she doesn't understand how CRISPR works, I have no
doubt she doesn't understand every jot and tittle about it any more
than I do, but she doesn't have to be able to peer review articles
about CRISPR in order to grok the method's veracity and the basic
concepts about it.

My experience is all pseudoskeptics, not just flat-earthers, not just
scientific pseudoskeptics, but all those who reject material evidence
and accept made-up facts without question, are symptomatic of a
failure in education, and equally pose clear and present dangers to
modern society.

--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
JTEM
2024-05-06 06:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by jillery
The following link is to an 8-minute Youtube video of Sabine
Hossenfelder expressing her concerns about flat-earthers aka
http://youtu.be/TW6hgOc3wuI
Ah, reaching for the low-hanging fruit, yet again! You can
always tell a "Brilliant" usenet troll by how the pick the
absolute softest targets on the planet...
Post by jillery
************************************
@1:04
But it's not just a matter of misunderstanding. If you believe that
the Earth is flat you also have to believe in a global conspiracy
that's hiding the truth for no particular reason.
I never heard of a conspiracy theory that failed to advance a
motive. In the case of flat earthers it's a little difficult
because quite a few aren't serious. They're having fun, not
only by finding believers but at the failure of the likes of
you to manage even a half-decent argument against them.

Most of the serious flat earthers I've encountered present a
religious motive for the conspiracy. God vs the devil, Christ
and the anti Christ, that sort of thing.
Post by jillery
@3:04
To me flat earthers are the first symptom of a much bigger problem.
They show us what happens when people realize they can't understand
modern science, don't trust scientists, and therefore throw out even
the most basic scientific knowledge on the rationale of skepticism.
*************************************
And there it is: "Science," defined in our world as "The media,"
must be believed without question, or you're a flat earther.

Damn. There was once a time when there were smart people posting
here, people who could spot propaganda when it's laid out in
front of them...

Paleo anthropology isn't a science. Get over it. It doesn't meet
the basic definition of science, it's methods suck out loud. It's
a professional, top-down selection bias.

If you prefer, you can say "Preservation bias" though "Selection
bias" is vastly more accurate...

Gwobull Warbling is a farce. We're in an ice age, the fossil
fuels are running out and children are literally pissing
themselves over the thought of the planet overheating due to
fossil fuels. In reality, the loss of fossil fuels should heat
up the world as the particle pollution -- particulates -- fall
out of the atmosphere and the sulfur clears up (falling back
as acid rain). Both those things COOL THE FRIGGING PLANET and
they're stop cooling it, just as soon as we stop burning fossil
fuels.

Remember the absolutely totally science based ordeal they put
us all through in 2020, and then the totally safe and scientific
vaccines they forced people to take?

Yeah, that was another "Ah, science" moment...

SCIENCE IS MEANT TO BE QUESTIONED, you mouth breathing imbecile.

THE DEBATE BEGINS WITH PUBLICATION, morons, it doesn't end there.
--
https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/The%20Book%20of%20JTEM/page/5
RonO
2024-05-06 23:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by jillery
The following link is to an 8-minute Youtube video of Sabine
Hossenfelder expressing her concerns about flat-earthers aka
http://youtu.be/TW6hgOc3wuI
************************************
@1:04
But it's not just a matter of misunderstanding. If you believe that
the Earth is flat you also have to believe in a global conspiracy
that's hiding the truth for no particular reason.
@3:04
To me flat earthers are the first symptom of a much bigger problem.
They show us what happens when people realize they can't understand
modern science, don't trust scientists, and therefore throw out even
the most basic scientific knowledge on the rationale of skepticism.
*************************************
The above is similar to my concerns about pseudoskeptics generally,
**********************************
@3:23
Flat earthers are somewhat extreme in that they're actually throwing
out evidence that they could test themselves if they weren't so bad at
science. But the underlying problem is much deeper because in most of
modern science the average person can't test evidence for themselves.
**********************************
While I agree doing "modern science" is beyond the financial and
logistical resources of the average person, I disagree that's an
appropriate test. Just as people don't need to be an automotive
engineer to understand and appreciate the merits of good automotive
design, they also don't need to be professional scientists in order to
understand and appreciate the evidence on which scientific theories
are based.
When Sabine says she doesn't understand how CRISPR works, I have no
doubt she doesn't understand every jot and tittle about it any more
than I do, but she doesn't have to be able to peer review articles
about CRISPR in order to grok the method's veracity and the basic
concepts about it.
My experience is all pseudoskeptics, not just flat-earthers, not just
scientific pseudoskeptics, but all those who reject material evidence
and accept made-up facts without question, are symptomatic of a
failure in education, and equally pose clear and present dangers to
modern society.
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/from-a-million-miles-away-nasa-camera-shows-moon-crossing-face-of-earth/

They probably have to think that the moon landings were faked.

https://explorer1.jpl.nasa.gov/galleries/earth-from-space/#gallery-9
https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/apollo-8-earthrise/

Ron Okimoto
jillery
2024-05-07 11:51:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonO
Post by jillery
The following link is to an 8-minute Youtube video of Sabine
Hossenfelder expressing her concerns about flat-earthers aka
http://youtu.be/TW6hgOc3wuI
************************************
@1:04
But it's not just a matter of misunderstanding. If you believe that
the Earth is flat you also have to believe in a global conspiracy
that's hiding the truth for no particular reason.
@3:04
To me flat earthers are the first symptom of a much bigger problem.
They show us what happens when people realize they can't understand
modern science, don't trust scientists, and therefore throw out even
the most basic scientific knowledge on the rationale of skepticism.
*************************************
The above is similar to my concerns about pseudoskeptics generally,
**********************************
@3:23
Flat earthers are somewhat extreme in that they're actually throwing
out evidence that they could test themselves if they weren't so bad at
science. But the underlying problem is much deeper because in most of
modern science the average person can't test evidence for themselves.
**********************************
While I agree doing "modern science" is beyond the financial and
logistical resources of the average person, I disagree that's an
appropriate test. Just as people don't need to be an automotive
engineer to understand and appreciate the merits of good automotive
design, they also don't need to be professional scientists in order to
understand and appreciate the evidence on which scientific theories
are based.
When Sabine says she doesn't understand how CRISPR works, I have no
doubt she doesn't understand every jot and tittle about it any more
than I do, but she doesn't have to be able to peer review articles
about CRISPR in order to grok the method's veracity and the basic
concepts about it.
My experience is all pseudoskeptics, not just flat-earthers, not just
scientific pseudoskeptics, but all those who reject material evidence
and accept made-up facts without question, are symptomatic of a
failure in education, and equally pose clear and present dangers to
modern society.
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/from-a-million-miles-away-nasa-camera-shows-moon-crossing-face-of-earth/
They probably have to think that the moon landings were faked.
https://explorer1.jpl.nasa.gov/galleries/earth-from-space/#gallery-9
https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/apollo-8-earthrise/
Ron Okimoto
Yes, it's the same pseudoskepticism that rationalizes cdesign
proponentsists and election-deniers. People like Ron Dean and Donald
Trump exercise the same mindset.

--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
JTEM
2024-05-07 17:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by jillery
Yes, it's the same pseudoskepticism that rationalizes cdesign
proponentsists and election-deniers.
Oh. So now Bush won Florida fair & square, back in 2000.

According to you.

You're a fucking idiot. For real.
--
https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/The%20Book%20of%20JTEM/page/5
jillery
2024-05-08 07:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by jillery
Yes, it's the same pseudoskepticism that rationalizes cdesign
proponentsists and election-deniers.
Oh. So now Bush won Florida fair & square, back in 2000.
Yes, Republicans twist their knappies over how Gore stole the
election. And Tilden too.
Post by JTEM
According to you.
You're a fucking idiot. For real.
Yeah, I get that a lot from willfully stupid trolls.

--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
JTEM
2024-05-08 19:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by jillery
Yes, it's the same pseudoskepticism that rationalizes cdesign
proponentsists and election-deniers.
Oh. So now Bush won Florida fair & square, back in 2000.
Yes
You're a twat.

There's never been a time since 2000 when I haven't thought
that the Republicans stole Florida. Most reasonable people
agree with me, and the rest haven't given it much thought.
Only partisan shitheads, sticking to their church dogma,
pretend that Bush "Won."

It's not "Election denying," it's thinking for yourself
instead of regurgitating what the media plants inside of
your skull and pretending that you're thinking.
--
https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/The%20Book%20of%20JTEM/page/5
jillery
2024-05-11 09:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
You're a twat.
Yeah, I get that a lot from willfully stupid trolls.

--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
JTEM
2024-05-11 19:03:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by jillery
Post by JTEM
You're a twat.
Yeah, I get that a lot
So your parents are still alive! That's nice. Good for
them.
--
https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/The%20Book%20of%20JTEM/page/5
JTEM
2024-05-09 21:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Oh. So now Bush won Florida fair & square, back in 2000.
According to you.
Yes
Just had to see this again, enjoy the sun's glint off the
drool on your chin...

Breathtaking.
--
https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/The%20Book%20of%20JTEM/page/5
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