Discussion:
Ancient tetrapod predator
(too old to reply)
RonO
2024-07-03 22:04:45 UTC
Permalink
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297

The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world at
that time (they claim glacial region).

Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of the
Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.

Ron Okimoto
John Harshman
2024-07-03 22:56:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world at
that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of the
Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on the
Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Bob Casanova
2024-07-03 23:34:34 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 3 Jul 2024 15:56:13 -0700, the following appeared in
talk.origins, posted by John Harshman
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world at
that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of the
Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on the
Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
It sounded to me that he was saying that there is a claim
that the region now known as Namibia was glaciated. I have
no Idea whether it was, but IIRC there were many regions
which weren't glaciated, just as in all known glaciations.
That he may have been "cast(ing) doubt on the Permian
glaciation" overall seems a bit of a stretch.
--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov
RonO
2024-07-04 01:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world
at that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of
the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on the
Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims. The paper
indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now Namibia was as cold
as they think, then amphibians had adapted to colder climates after
diversification during the Caboniferous.

Ron Okimoto
John Harshman
2024-07-04 14:18:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonO
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world
at that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of
the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on the
Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims.
That's more or less what "they claim" connotes. Perhaps you misspoke?
Post by RonO
The paper
indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now Namibia was as cold
as they think, then amphibians had adapted to colder climates after
diversification during the Caboniferous.
"As cold as they think" is hardly a matter of "if". That part of
Gondwana was near the south pole at the time, and there's all sorts of
evidence of a protracted series of ice ages. There were of course
interglacials, but there would still have been very long, cold winters.
Think Alaska.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Paleozoic_icehouse
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-07-04 16:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world at
that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of the
Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on the
Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims.
That's more or less what "they claim" connotes. Perhaps you misspoke?
Your understanding of "claim" is identical to mine, but this isn't the
first time I've seen it used without any critical intent.
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
The paper indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now Namibia
was as cold as they think, then amphibians had adapted to colder
climates after diversification during the Caboniferous.
"As cold as they think" is hardly a matter of "if". That part of
Gondwana was near the south pole at the time, and there's all sorts of
evidence of a protracted series of ice ages. There were of course
interglacials, but there would still have been very long, cold winters.
Think Alaska.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Paleozoic_icehouse
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
RonO
2024-07-04 19:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years
ago, and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the
world at that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of
the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on the
Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims.
That's more or less what "they claim" connotes. Perhaps you misspoke?
Perhaps you misunderstood. They did make those claims in the paper.
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
The paper indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now Namibia
was as cold as they think, then amphibians had adapted to colder
climates after diversification during the Caboniferous.
"As cold as they think" is hardly a matter of "if". That part of
Gondwana was near the south pole at the time, and there's all sorts of
evidence of a protracted series of ice ages. There were of course
interglacials, but there would still have been very long, cold winters.
Think Alaska.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Paleozoic_icehouse
You seem to want to misunderstand what I wrote.

Ron Okimoto
John Harshman
2024-07-04 20:29:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years
ago, and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the
world at that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of
the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on
the Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims.
That's more or less what "they claim" connotes. Perhaps you misspoke?
Perhaps you misunderstood.  They did make those claims in the paper.
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
The paper indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now Namibia
was as cold as they think, then amphibians had adapted to colder
climates after diversification during the Caboniferous.
"As cold as they think" is hardly a matter of "if". That part of
Gondwana was near the south pole at the time, and there's all sorts of
evidence of a protracted series of ice ages. There were of course
interglacials, but there would still have been very long, cold
winters. Think Alaska.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Paleozoic_icehouse
You seem to want to misunderstand what I wrote.
Don't really want to belabor the point, but "they claim" and "if...as
cold as they think" are just not appropriate for what are well-settled
scientific facts. If I said "They claim that whales are artiodactyls" or
"if the mid-Atlantic ridge is a spreading center as they think", what
would you make of that?
Ernest Major
2024-07-04 21:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harshman
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years
ago, and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of
the world at that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy
of the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on
the Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims.
That's more or less what "they claim" connotes. Perhaps you misspoke?
Perhaps you misunderstood.  They did make those claims in the paper.
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
The paper indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now Namibia
was as cold as they think, then amphibians had adapted to colder
climates after diversification during the Caboniferous.
"As cold as they think" is hardly a matter of "if". That part of
Gondwana was near the south pole at the time, and there's all sorts
of evidence of a protracted series of ice ages. There were of course
interglacials, but there would still have been very long, cold
winters. Think Alaska.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Paleozoic_icehouse
You seem to want to misunderstand what I wrote.
Don't really want to belabor the point, but "they claim" and "if...as
cold as they think" are just not appropriate for what are well-settled
scientific facts. If I said "They claim that whales are artiodactyls" or
"if the mid-Atlantic ridge is a spreading center as they think", what
would you make of that?
I sometimes use "report" when I'm not in a position to endorse something
out of my own knowledge or understanding. I hope this doesn't have the
negative implications of the use of "claim" in this context.
--
alias Ernest Major
RonO
2024-07-05 21:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harshman
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years
ago, and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of
the world at that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy
of the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on
the Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims.
That's more or less what "they claim" connotes. Perhaps you misspoke?
Perhaps you misunderstood.  They did make those claims in the paper.
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
The paper indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now Namibia
was as cold as they think, then amphibians had adapted to colder
climates after diversification during the Caboniferous.
"As cold as they think" is hardly a matter of "if". That part of
Gondwana was near the south pole at the time, and there's all sorts
of evidence of a protracted series of ice ages. There were of course
interglacials, but there would still have been very long, cold
winters. Think Alaska.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Paleozoic_icehouse
You seem to want to misunderstand what I wrote.
Don't really want to belabor the point, but "they claim" and "if...as
cold as they think" are just not appropriate for what are well-settled
scientific facts. If I said "They claim that whales are artiodactyls" or
"if the mid-Atlantic ridge is a spreading center as they think", what
would you make of that?
Not true. Using "claim" doesn't have to cast dispersion on anything.
It may be most used in such a context, but a "claim" is just a claim
when it refers to claims made in any scientific paper. Otherwise I would
have used some stupid phrase, like "the authors made a well supported
inference that". It is easier just to say that they made the claim
because that is what they did.

Ron Okimoto

Ron Okimoto
John Harshman
2024-07-05 22:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harshman
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years
ago, and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of
the world at that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy
of the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on
the Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims.
That's more or less what "they claim" connotes. Perhaps you misspoke?
Perhaps you misunderstood.  They did make those claims in the paper.
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
The paper indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now
Namibia was as cold as they think, then amphibians had adapted to
colder climates after diversification during the Caboniferous.
"As cold as they think" is hardly a matter of "if". That part of
Gondwana was near the south pole at the time, and there's all sorts
of evidence of a protracted series of ice ages. There were of course
interglacials, but there would still have been very long, cold
winters. Think Alaska.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Paleozoic_icehouse
You seem to want to misunderstand what I wrote.
Don't really want to belabor the point, but "they claim" and "if...as
cold as they think" are just not appropriate for what are well-settled
scientific facts. If I said "They claim that whales are artiodactyls"
or "if the mid-Atlantic ridge is a spreading center as they think",
what would you make of that?
Not true.  Using "claim" doesn't have to cast dispersion on anything. It
may be most used in such a context, but a "claim" is just a claim when
it refers to claims made in any scientific paper. Otherwise I would have
used some stupid phrase, like "the authors made a well supported
inference that".  It is easier just to say that they made the claim
because that is what they did.
OK, I'm going to stop belaboring the point.

John Harshman
2024-07-04 14:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harshman
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world
at that time (they claim glacial region).
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of
the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
What do you mean by "they claim"? Are you trying to cast doubt on the
Permian glaciation? There's plenty of evidence for it.
Why would you think that I was casting doubt on their claims.  The paper
indicates that if the region of Pangea that is now Namibia was as cold
as they think, then amphibians had adapted to colder climates after
diversification during the Caboniferous.
This is actually quite cool (in multiple senses):

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/148822/fossil-fjords-in-namibia
Ernest Major
2024-07-04 20:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world at
that time (they claim glacial region).
According to what I've read elsewhere, this is a stem tetrapod (and
therefore not a salamander).
Post by RonO
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of the
Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
Ron Okimoto
--
alias Ernest Major
John Harshman
2024-07-04 23:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ernest Major
Post by RonO
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fossils-show-huge-salamanderlike-predator-sharp-fangs-existed-111645297
The giant salamander with fangs may have lived 280 million years ago,
and they claim that Namibia was in a much colder region of the world
at that time (they claim glacial region).
According to what I've read elsewhere, this is a stem tetrapod (and
therefore not a salamander).
Yes. You can follow the link Ron provided to the Nature article, which
contains a comprehensive phylogenetic tree.
Post by Ernest Major
Post by RonO
Click on the link in the fourth paragraph and you can get a copy of
the Nature article to read, otherwise the article is pay walled.
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