politics

[erik simpson]

I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

[Martin Harran]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?

That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

[erik simpson]

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

I’m glad he’s keeping us posted on the dairy flu.

[erik simpson]

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

I’m glad he’s keeping us posted on the dairy flu.

At least the CDC is taking notice now.

[RonO]

Post by erik simpson

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic.  I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics.  In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

I’m glad he’s keeping us posted on the dairy flu.

At least the CDC is taking notice now.

The CDC has been forced to start testing dairy workers, but they still
seem to be against contact tracing. The are only testing the workers in
states with known infected herds. They will likely be forced to test
close contacts of the dairy workers because they already know that they
shed live virus when infected. The first human case in Texas told them
that when they were able to culture it and have continued to use that
virus culture since then. The CDC continues to refuse to identify
infected herds in states that have produced infected milk products, but
do not claim to have infected herds, and they refuse to identify
infected herds in states like Florida that have had all the signs of
having infected herds. They had infected milk products, they had virus
in their waste water, they have had infected poultry farms. They just
refuse to identify their infected herds and the USDA and CDC have let
them get away with it. All the dairy workers are working unprotected in
Florida because the CDC only recommends using protective gear when
working with infected animals. None of the Florida workers know that
they are working with infected animals. That is how stupid the response
has been and continues to be. The CDC is displaying creationist tactics
that TO is well familiar with in their campaign of denial. That is one
of the reasons that I post it here, and the fact that it is evolution in
realtime.

Ron Okimoto

[jillery]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 18:35:37 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

I’m glad he’s keeping us posted on the dairy flu.

Will one of you please pay attention, if only for the novelty of the
experience?
*******************************
From: RonO <***@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Trump claims migrants have bad genes
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2024 10:04:30 -0500

Post by *Hemidactylus*
Migrants made this country as great as it is. Even the native Americans
came from Asia. Trump's stupidity has been used against the Irish,
Asians, Eastern Europeans, Italians, and Jews. It seems to be nuts that
it should surface again in this day and age.

*******************************

[RonO]

Post by jillery
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 18:35:37 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

I’m glad he’s keeping us posted on the dairy flu.

Will one of you please pay attention, if only for the novelty of the
experience?
*******************************
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Trump claims migrants have bad genes
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2024 10:04:30 -0500

Post by *Hemidactylus*
Migrants made this country as great as it is. Even the native Americans
came from Asia. Trump's stupidity has been used against the Irish,
Asians, Eastern Europeans, Italians, and Jews. It seems to be nuts that
it should surface again in this day and age.

*******************************

That was totally relevant to TO. Those have been common discussion
topics because of the IDiotic type creationist stupidity, and the ID
Perps have claimed that Trump supports the ID scam. It is the type of
stupidity that the creationists usually blame on the evolution side when
racists are likely not the least bit motivated by the fact of evolution.
Just look back on how the ID perps have consistently tried to link
evolution to the Nazis, and the American Nazis support Trump. It is
just another example of how bankrupt and evil that argument against
evolution is. It isn't just irrelevant, but the opposite is likely
true. Who carried out the Holocaust? There is supposed to be an ID
scam unit in Germany, and how many such Biblical creationists were
involved in the excesses of the Nazis? Hitler did not do everything
himself.

When I looked into the Methodist involvement in the Eugenics movement I
found out that it was the YEC faction of Methodists that got the church
involved in that fiasco. They definitely did not believe in biological
evolution but their likely conservative racist tendencies got them to
believe that they could breed better Americans. The article that I
found was careful to not claim any racist reasons for the young earth
creationist wanting to support eugenics, but that is pretty hard to
believe. What type of genetic improvement of the human race did they
think they were going to accomplish?

Ron Okimoto

[jillery]

Post by RonO

Post by jillery
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 18:35:37 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

I’m glad he’s keeping us posted on the dairy flu.

Will one of you please pay attention, if only for the novelty of the
experience?
*******************************
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Trump claims migrants have bad genes
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2024 10:04:30 -0500

Post by *Hemidactylus*
Migrants made this country as great as it is. Even the native Americans
came from Asia. Trump's stupidity has been used against the Irish,
Asians, Eastern Europeans, Italians, and Jews. It seems to be nuts that
it should surface again in this day and age.

*******************************

That was totally relevant to TO. Those have been common discussion
topics because of the IDiotic type creationist stupidity, and the ID
Perps have claimed that Trump supports the ID scam. It is the type of
stupidity that the creationists usually blame on the evolution side when
racists are likely not the least bit motivated by the fact of evolution.
Just look back on how the ID perps have consistently tried to link
evolution to the Nazis, and the American Nazis support Trump. It is
just another example of how bankrupt and evil that argument against
evolution is. It isn't just irrelevant, but the opposite is likely
true. Who carried out the Holocaust? There is supposed to be an ID
scam unit in Germany, and how many such Biblical creationists were
involved in the excesses of the Nazis? Hitler did not do everything
himself.
When I looked into the Methodist involvement in the Eugenics movement I
found out that it was the YEC faction of Methodists that got the church
involved in that fiasco. They definitely did not believe in biological
evolution but their likely conservative racist tendencies got them to
believe that they could breed better Americans. The article that I
found was careful to not claim any racist reasons for the young earth
creationist wanting to support eugenics, but that is pretty hard to
believe. What type of genetic improvement of the human race did they
think they were going to accomplish?
Ron Okimoto

I agree. I also have made the point that anti-science
rationalizations are little different from those that rationalize
Christian Nationalism. My point here is several posters remain
habitually blind to whom posts what.

[Martin Harran]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.

Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.

My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

[jillery]

On Sat, 07 Dec 2024 18:41:15 +0000, Martin Harran

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics.

Factually incorrect, as I documented previously.

Post by Martin Harran

Post by erik simpson
In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

What is it about post volume that's so noteworthy to some posters?
Some J*** enablers also recently raised this issue. Is there a secret
competition for gold stars or something?

[JTEM]

Post by jillery
What is it about post volume that's so noteworthy to some posters?
Some J*** enablers also recently raised this issue. Is there a secret
competition for gold stars or something?

Yes. Unquestionably, some people online operate on the assumption
that volume makes truth or "Victory."

Perhaps it's actually an emotional and not intellectual "Truth"
for them, where they are reacting to stimuli and not formulating
a strategy...

Also: Very, VERY early on I noticed that some jackwads appear to
believe that their feelings are validated by their ability to
act out on them. In other words, they believe that their ability
to bang out childish insults is proof that the other person is
deserving of childish insults. It's one of the reasons why I tend
to "Fire back," in a vain hope of dissuading them.

"I called you a doodoo head! That's proof that you're a doodoo
head!"

As a concept it's connected to a Meta Truth or is itself an
expression of the Meta Truth, where you feel as strongly about
somebody as you would if they ate babies thus they literally
eat babies. This is what 80% of Trump Derangement Syndrome is
based on, the remaining 20% being grounded entirely in idiocy...

Propaganda works the same way -- associate [A] with [B] then
when they see [A] they will react as if they are witnessing
[B] -- so maybe it's all merely a self induced propaganda...

People are idiots. This is why the scientific process was
developed in the first place, to remove the human element with
all our flaws and frailties. And this group explains why it so
often fails.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

Ron scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and for that I thank him.

I don’t know if we’ve been able to rebound from the welcome demise of GG.

I do miss more frequent input from Lawyer Daggett and Burkhard. I think
they had both used novaBBS as an alternative means.

Ron Dean has returned. That’s gotta be better than JTEM, right?

[Martin Harran]

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 02:23:51 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

Ron scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and for that I thank him.
I don’t know if we’ve been able to rebound from the welcome demise of GG.
I do miss more frequent input from Lawyer Daggett and Burkhard. I think
they had both used novaBBS as an alternative means.
Ron Dean has returned. That’s gotta be better than JTEM, right?

So has MarkE. Coincidence?

One way or another, hopefully they will generate a bit more activity
than has been here since the end of GG.

[jillery]

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 10:34:40 +0000, Martin Harran

Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 02:23:51 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

Ron scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and for that I thank him.
I don’t know if we’ve been able to rebound from the welcome demise of GG.
I do miss more frequent input from Lawyer Daggett and Burkhard. I think
they had both used novaBBS as an alternative means.
Ron Dean has returned. That’s gotta be better than JTEM, right?

So has MarkE. Coincidence?
One way or another, hopefully they will generate a bit more activity
than has been here since the end of GG.

You conflate smoke with substance. Both MarkE and RDean are likely to
provide the latest rounds of deja vu all over again, where they repost
the same old arguments without acknowledging the answers they were
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

[erik simpson]

Post by jillery
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 10:34:40 +0000, Martin Harran

Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 02:23:51 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

Ron scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and for that I thank him.
I don’t know if we’ve been able to rebound from the welcome demise of GG.
I do miss more frequent input from Lawyer Daggett and Burkhard. I think
they had both used novaBBS as an alternative means.
Ron Dean has returned. That’s gotta be better than JTEM, right?

So has MarkE. Coincidence?
One way or another, hopefully they will generate a bit more activity
than has been here since the end of GG.

You conflate smoke with substance. Both MarkE and RDean are likely to
provide the latest rounds of deja vu all over again, where they repost
the same old arguments without acknowledging the answers they were
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

I concur. MarkE is certainly recycling the same old. Rdean has just
reappeared (and I'm glad to see his health issues are at least stable).
Given his past history he will probably repeat his arguments. We'll see.

[Martin Harran]

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 09:15:48 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by jillery
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 10:34:40 +0000, Martin Harran

Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 02:23:51 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

Ron scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and for that I thank him.
I don’t know if we’ve been able to rebound from the welcome demise of GG.
I do miss more frequent input from Lawyer Daggett and Burkhard. I think
they had both used novaBBS as an alternative means.
Ron Dean has returned. That’s gotta be better than JTEM, right?

So has MarkE. Coincidence?
One way or another, hopefully they will generate a bit more activity
than has been here since the end of GG.

You conflate smoke with substance. Both MarkE and RDean are likely to
provide the latest rounds of deja vu all over again, where they repost
the same old arguments without acknowledging the answers they were
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

I concur. MarkE is certainly recycling the same old. Rdean has just
reappeared (and I'm glad to see his health issues are at least stable).
Given his past history he will probably repeat his arguments. We'll see.

By activity, I don't mean just what *they* post, I include what is
posted by those who engage with them. I have learnt quite a bit over
the years from such engagements. YMMV

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:02:23 -0500

Post by jillery
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 10:34:40 +0000, Martin Harran

Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 02:23:51 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

Ron scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and for that I thank him.
I don’t know if we’ve been able to rebound from the welcome demise of GG.
I do miss more frequent input from Lawyer Daggett and Burkhard. I think
they had both used novaBBS as an alternative means.
Ron Dean has returned. That’s gotta be better than JTEM, right?

So has MarkE. Coincidence?
One way or another, hopefully they will generate a bit more activity
than has been here since the end of GG.

You conflate smoke with substance. Both MarkE and RDean are likely to
provide the latest rounds of deja vu all over again, where they repost
the same old arguments without acknowledging the answers they were

You are vindicated.

Also Martin Harran is reviving some historical debate about how Galileo was treated.

Post by jillery
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

Mindlessness is in the eye of the beholder.

JTEM's "debating style" is quite off-putting. Looks like he has troubles and projects them on anyone responding.

At least David Dalton is out to improve the world, in his own curious way.

And I imagine I'm just seen as sniping from the sidelines.
Not much new to see here, move along.

US Electoral troubles are behind us; it's now all about the fallout (I hope not literally). </gloom>

[Martin Harran]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:32:09 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:02:23 -0500

Post by jillery
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 10:34:40 +0000, Martin Harran

Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 02:23:51 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

Ron scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and for that I thank him.
I don’t know if we’ve been able to rebound from the welcome demise of GG.
I do miss more frequent input from Lawyer Daggett and Burkhard. I think
they had both used novaBBS as an alternative means.
Ron Dean has returned. That’s gotta be better than JTEM, right?

So has MarkE. Coincidence?
One way or another, hopefully they will generate a bit more activity
than has been here since the end of GG.

You conflate smoke with substance. Both MarkE and RDean are likely to
provide the latest rounds of deja vu all over again, where they repost
the same old arguments without acknowledging the answers they were

You are vindicated.
Also Martin Harran is reviving some historical debate about how Galileo was treated.

In regard to ID/Creationism/Religion v Science generally, I'd happily
bet that nothing new has been added in the last 5-10 years, it is
*all* old stuff revisited.

Anyway, as previously pointed out to you, reading these threads is not
compulsory and, if you don't think they are worthwhile fare for TO,
you could always post something else yourself.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by jillery
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

Mindlessness is in the eye of the beholder.
JTEM's "debating style" is quite off-putting. Looks like he has troubles and projects them on anyone responding.
At least David Dalton is out to improve the world, in his own curious way.
And I imagine I'm just seen as sniping from the sidelines.
Not much new to see here, move along.
US Electoral troubles are behind us; it's now all about the fallout (I hope not literally). </gloom>

[jillery]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:08:43 +0000, Martin Harran

Post by Martin Harran
In regard to ID/Creationism/Religion v Science generally, I'd happily
bet that nothing new has been added in the last 5-10 years, it is
*all* old stuff revisited.

There ARE new arguments raised by anti-science deniers. Based on your
previous posts, my impression is you're willfully blind to them.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:08:43 +0000

Post by Martin Harran
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:32:09 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:02:23 -0500

[]

Post by Martin Harran

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Also Martin Harran is reviving some historical debate about how Galileo was treated.

In regard to ID/Creationism/Religion v Science generally, I'd happily
bet that nothing new has been added in the last 5-10 years, it is
*all* old stuff revisited.

I guess so.

Post by Martin Harran
Anyway, as previously pointed out to you, reading these threads is not
compulsory and, if you don't think they are worthwhile fare for TO,
you could always post something else yourself.

Sure. but I'm mostly here as an observer; I don't have a Great New
Theory to promote. Sorry.

Post by Martin Harran

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by jillery
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

But responding to JTEM *is* enabling it, pshurely?

Post by Martin Harran

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Mindlessness is in the eye of the beholder.
JTEM's "debating style" is quite off-putting. Looks like he has troubles and projects them on anyone responding.

[]

[erik simpson]

Post by jillery
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:08:43 +0000

Post by Martin Harran
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:32:09 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:02:23 -0500

[]

Post by Martin Harran

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Also Martin Harran is reviving some historical debate about how Galileo was treated.

In regard to ID/Creationism/Religion v Science generally, I'd happily
bet that nothing new has been added in the last 5-10 years, it is
*all* old stuff revisited.

I guess so.

Post by Martin Harran
Anyway, as previously pointed out to you, reading these threads is not
compulsory and, if you don't think they are worthwhile fare for TO,
you could always post something else yourself.

Sure. but I'm mostly here as an observer; I don't have a Great New
Theory to promote. Sorry.

Post by Martin Harran

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by jillery
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

But responding to JTEM *is* enabling it, pshurely?

Post by Martin Harran

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Mindlessness is in the eye of the beholder.
JTEM's "debating style" is quite off-putting. Looks like he has troubles and projects them on anyone responding.

[]

My parents were Christian Scientists (which a very weird religion, BTW),
and their credo was "there is no life, truth nor intelligence in
matter". This applies in spades to our favorite troll.

[JTEM]

Post by erik simpson
My parents were Christian Scientists (which a very weird religion, BTW),
and their credo was "there is no life, truth nor intelligence in
matter".

Was it them who instilled your narcissism?

Not to mention your bed wetting...

[jillery]

On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 14:07:11 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by jillery
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:08:43 +0000

Post by Martin Harran
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:32:09 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:02:23 -0500

[]

Post by Martin Harran

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Also Martin Harran is reviving some historical debate about how Galileo was treated.

In regard to ID/Creationism/Religion v Science generally, I'd happily
bet that nothing new has been added in the last 5-10 years, it is
*all* old stuff revisited.

I guess so.

Your guess is incorrect.

Post by jillery

Post by Martin Harran
Anyway, as previously pointed out to you, reading these threads is not
compulsory and, if you don't think they are worthwhile fare for TO,
you could always post something else yourself.

Sure. but I'm mostly here as an observer; I don't have a Great New
Theory to promote. Sorry.

Post by Martin Harran

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by jillery
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

But responding to JTEM *is* enabling it, pshurely?

The comment above is in response to a comment from jillery, and not
from the poster to whom Kerr-Mudd's post addresses. Since Kerr-Mudd
commented here, jillery responds to his comment below:

Not sure how any reasonable person considers documenting willful
stupidity as enabling, "pshurely" or otherwise.

[jillery]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:32:09 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:02:23 -0500

Post by jillery
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 10:34:40 +0000, Martin Harran

Post by Martin Harran
On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 02:23:51 +0000, *Hemidactylus*

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 10:05:40 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

Ron's been standing clear of electoral politics. In fact, if he's the
most prolific poster, good for him.

Sorry, I meant to reply to this but it slipped by me.
Just to be clear, I have no problem at all with Ron's posting on the
Dairy Flu - on the contrary, that is the sort of stuff that he excels
at and I find his contributions highly valuable even if focused mostly
on the USA as there will be an inevitable knock-on this side of the
Atlantic.
My point was that recently, he has really been the only poster here …
unless you want to consider JTEM as a useful poster!

Ron scares the shit out of me on a regular basis and for that I thank him.
I don’t know if we’ve been able to rebound from the welcome demise of GG.
I do miss more frequent input from Lawyer Daggett and Burkhard. I think
they had both used novaBBS as an alternative means.
Ron Dean has returned. That’s gotta be better than JTEM, right?

So has MarkE. Coincidence?
One way or another, hopefully they will generate a bit more activity
than has been here since the end of GG.

You conflate smoke with substance. Both MarkE and RDean are likely to
provide the latest rounds of deja vu all over again, where they repost
the same old arguments without acknowledging the answers they were

You are vindicated.
Also Martin Harran is reviving some historical debate about how Galileo was treated.

Post by jillery
given before. I suppose that's better than mindless trolls from J***
enablers, but not by much.

Mindlessness is in the eye of the beholder.

Not really. When baseless ad hominems are asserted, which have
nothing to do with the subject(s) under discussion, that qualifies as
mindlessness.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
JTEM's "debating style" is quite off-putting. Looks like he has troubles and projects them on anyone responding.

At least as off-putting as its enablers... IMO. Based on your
previous posts to me and about me, apparently your mileage varies.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
At least David Dalton is out to improve the world, in his own curious way.
And I imagine I'm just seen as sniping from the sidelines.
Not much new to see here, move along.
US Electoral troubles are behind us; it's now all about the fallout (I hope not literally). </gloom>

I disagree, in that the same mindless reasoning about what qualifies
as evidence permeate both science deniers AND Trump supporters. As
his cabinet nominees illustrate, the inmates have taken over the
asylum.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 17:25:34 +0000

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

JTEM's been abusive (no change there, then)

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 17:25:34 +0000

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

JTEM's been abusive (no change there, then)

Yet Jillery will hold that every thought is sacred even if it’s JTEM’s
abuse of Jillery.

[erik simpson]

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 17:25:34 +0000

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

JTEM's been abusive (no change there, then)

Yet Jillery will hold that every thought is sacred even if it’s JTEM’s
abuse of Jillery.

That's Jillery's problem, not ours.

[jillery]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:17:18 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 17:25:34 +0000

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

JTEM's been abusive (no change there, then)

Yet Jillery will hold that every thought is sacred even if it’s JTEM’s
abuse of Jillery.

That's Jillery's problem, not ours.

Perhaps some day you two will grow up and stop posting willfully
stupid lies about me.

[RonO]

Post by Martin Harran
On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

You'd prefer it to be essentially a Ron O blog?
That's what it's pretty well been this last while :(

In my retirement I am starting a blog, but most of TO won't be
interested in it because it is about genetics, and mostly going to be
chicken genetics.

I only have one post up, and posted it as a pdf of a Word document
because Go Daddy's editor doesn't support superscripts and didn't have
fonts that I wanted to use. Some might benefit from the "Jargon"
section where I have a short course on genetics so that anyone
interested will be able to follow what I put up.

https://birdbraingenetics.blog/

Unfortunately you have to download the pdf to read it. There should be
some way to post readable documents to the web site, but simple pasting
doesn't work because the editor is so limited. You can add fonts, but
there is no way to manipulate text, and superscripts and subscripts are
essential for genetics.

Ron Okimoto

[Bob Casanova]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Agreed.

[JTEM]

I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are off-
topic.

They also make you look like an even bigger jackass than your
"Science" posts.

I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of affairs
here in the US

"Oh no! Trump was President for four years and NONE OF THE
THINGS I keep screaming about happened! That makes you bad!"

You're such a low-life racist.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.

European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,

Jan

[erik simpson]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

[RonO]

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic.  I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up.  There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

Encouraging signs? Nazis marched in Ohio, the Klan and Nazis think that
they have their man in the White House. Trump has just confirmed that
he plans to declare a national emergency that would allow the military
to assist in his mass deportations. There are an estimated 11 million
undocumented immigrants in the US. As crazy as it may seem Trump seems
to be planning Nationwide concentration camps to collect these people
for deportation. The claim is that 56% of those polled support
deportation. My guess is that a lot of them do not understand that they
are supporting. It sounds like bad fiction, but that is what our nation
has come to. Trump seems to have allowed people to express their darker
side. It isn't the side that made this country great.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-confirms-plan-declare-national-emergency-military-mass/story?id=115963448

Ron Okimoto

[erik simpson]

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic.  I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is
pretty messed up.  There are encouraging signs here and there, so
let's hope for the best.

Encouraging signs?  Nazis marched in Ohio, the Klan and Nazis think that
they have their man in the White House.  Trump has just confirmed that
he plans to declare a national emergency that would allow the military
to assist in his mass deportations.  There are an estimated 11 million
undocumented immigrants in the US.  As crazy as it may seem Trump seems
to be planning Nationwide concentration camps to collect these people
for deportation.  The claim is that 56% of those polled support
deportation.  My guess is that a lot of them do not understand that they
are supporting.  It sounds like bad fiction, but that is what our nation
has come to.  Trump seems to have allowed people to express their darker
side.  It isn't the side that made this country great.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-confirms-plan-declare-national-emergency-military-mass/story?id=115963448
Ron Okimoto

There are lots of discouraging signs as well as encouraging ones.

[Kestrel Clayton]

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic.  I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is
pretty messed up.  There are encouraging signs here and there, so
let's hope for the best.

Encouraging signs?  Nazis marched in Ohio, the Klan and Nazis think that
they have their man in the White House.  Trump has just confirmed that
he plans to declare a national emergency that would allow the military
to assist in his mass deportations.

... of course, Team Trump was promising right up until election night
that they would NOT involve the military in the promised mass deportations.

I am shocked, SHOCKED, to discover they might have lied to us. But
surely they're not lying about anything ELSE in their proposed ethnic
cleansing program!

There are an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the US.

Some of the promises for deportation promised numbers as high as 20
million. If there are 11 million undocumented immigrants but the Trump
administration wants to deport 20 million, the obvious implication is a
lot of lawful residents and even citizens will be deported as well.
Couple that with the promise to remove birthright citizenship, and it's
clear the Trump administration's goal is simply getting brown and Black
people out of the country, including those whose ancestors have lived
here for centuries.

A lot of right-leaning born-here non-white folks are feeling pretty smug
right now, confident that they're "one of the good ones." They're in for
a rude awakening when they find the fascists don't think there ARE any
"good ones."

As crazy as it may seem Trump seems > to be planning Nationwide

concentration camps to collect these people

for deportation.

Oh, and of course the promised concentration camps are too small for the
function, by at least an order of magnitude. Looks like the fascists are
also hoping disease and malnutrition will help them with their purge of
the untermenschen.

The claim is that 56% of those polled support > deportation.  My

guess is that a lot of them do not understand that they

are supporting.  It sounds like bad fiction, but that is what our nation
has come to.  Trump seems to have allowed people to express their darker
side.  It isn't the side that made this country great.

Indeed it has not. But unfortunately, the US has had an authoritarian
streak since its inception. I remain hopeful we can fix ourselves...
someday.

[Bob Casanova]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Jan

[Kestrel Clayton]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Yeah, the issues aren't really separable. Modern creationism didn't
evolve in a vacuum; it has always been tied to right-wing politics. And
the folks who will be taking charge of the US in January are
science-denying fruitcakes of every possible stripe.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Kestrel Clayton

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Yeah, the issues aren't really separable. Modern creationism didn't
evolve in a vacuum; it has always been tied to right-wing politics. And
the folks who will be taking charge of the US in January are
science-denying fruitcakes of every possible stripe.

And like in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia the movement
will no doubt be reinforced by ordinary careerism.
Driving out good scientsts by throwing accusations at them
of not being politically correct by the standards of the day
makes room for second rate nobodies wanting jobs.

Wait and see,

Jan

[William Hyde]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Kestrel Clayton

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Yeah, the issues aren't really separable. Modern creationism didn't
evolve in a vacuum; it has always been tied to right-wing politics. And
the folks who will be taking charge of the US in January are
science-denying fruitcakes of every possible stripe.

And like in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia the movement
will no doubt be reinforced by ordinary careerism.
Driving out good scientsts by throwing accusations at them
of not being politically correct by the standards of the day
makes room for second rate nobodies wanting jobs.

It's worked in the Church for two thousand years, after all.


William Hyde

[jillery]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 17:15:44 -0500, William Hyde

Post by William Hyde

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Kestrel Clayton

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Yeah, the issues aren't really separable. Modern creationism didn't
evolve in a vacuum; it has always been tied to right-wing politics. And
the folks who will be taking charge of the US in January are
science-denying fruitcakes of every possible stripe.

And like in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia the movement
will no doubt be reinforced by ordinary careerism.
Driving out good scientsts by throwing accusations at them
of not being politically correct by the standards of the day
makes room for second rate nobodies wanting jobs.

It's worked in the Church for two thousand years, after all.
William Hyde

Deus Vult

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Not to mention anti-vax. Even in Louis Pasteur's country there are more
anti-vaxers ynmight think.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Not to mention anti-vax. Even in Louis Pasteur's country there are more
anti-vaxers ynmight think.

You cannot surprise me with this.
With all their pretence of rationality France is one of the most
irrational countries there is, precisely because they think of
themselves as rational.
In practice this means that many of them will fall for any
plausible-sounding reasoned argument.
(there are dangers to thinking that you can think for yourself)

So they do not just have anti-vax, but also homeopathy, gem healing,
astrology, buddhist crap, and a whole slew of conspiracy theories.

Also, like Americans, they are anarchists at heart.
Authority, whatever it is, must be distrusted,

Jan

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Not to mention anti-vax. Even in Louis Pasteur's country there are more
anti-vaxers ynmight think.

You cannot surprise me with this.
With all their pretence of rationality France is one of the most
irrational countries there is, precisely because they think of
themselves as rational.
In practice this means that many of them will fall for any
plausible-sounding reasoned argument.
(there are dangers to thinking that you can think for yourself)
So they do not just have anti-vax, but also homeopathy, gem healing,
astrology, buddhist crap, and a whole slew of conspiracy theories.

Co-discoverer of HIV Luc Montagnier delved into homeopathy a bit.

Post by J. J. Lodder
Also, like Americans, they are anarchists at heart.
Authority, whatever it is, must be distrusted,

Napoleon? Vichy France?

[Rufus Ruffian]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Not to mention anti-vax. Even in Louis Pasteur's country there are more
anti-vaxers ynmight think.

Leave us not forget that kingpin vax fraudster Andrew Wakefield was from
Europe too, at least he was before the UK floated away on its own.



--
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and
thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 16:31

[Bob Casanova]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 18:11:29 +0100, the following appeared

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

Says you. Your good old USA, with its creationism/ID
is -the- source for mixing politics into science,

Missed the reference? OK.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

I don’t see a moratorium as workable. There are somewhat topical political
developments such as RFK Jr touted as health secretary and would influence
policy over response to evolving infectious agents.

Plus people (eg- Martin Harran and JJ Lodder) are going to blow steam as
they see us nose dive into the Trumpian sewer from afar as NATO fragments
while Putin ascends upon their doorsteps.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

I don't see a moratorium as workable. There are somewhat topical political
developments such as RFK Jr touted as health secretary and would influence
policy over response to evolving infectious agents.
Plus people (eg- Martin Harran and JJ Lodder) are going to blow steam as
they see us nose dive into the Trumpian sewer from afar as NATO fragments
while Putin ascends upon their doorsteps.

Your choice talking about your nose-diving into the Trumpian sewer.

I was talking about the effects it can be expected to have on science,

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

I don’t see a moratorium as workable. There are somewhat topical political
developments such as RFK Jr touted as health secretary and would influence
policy over response to evolving infectious agents.
Plus people (eg- Martin Harran and JJ Lodder) are going to blow steam as
they see us nose dive into the Trumpian sewer from afar as NATO fragments
while Putin ascends upon their doorsteps.

There is no need for NATO to fragment. Other than the USA, and perhaps
Turkey, it's holding together pretty well.

[jillery]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:39:24 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

I don’t see a moratorium as workable. There are somewhat topical political
developments such as RFK Jr touted as health secretary and would influence
policy over response to evolving infectious agents.
Plus people (eg- Martin Harran and JJ Lodder) are going to blow steam as
they see us nose dive into the Trumpian sewer from afar as NATO fragments
while Putin ascends upon their doorsteps.

There is no need for NATO to fragment. Other than the USA, and perhaps
Turkey, it's holding together pretty well.

<cough> Hungary <cough>

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by jillery
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:39:24 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

I don’t see a moratorium as workable. There are somewhat topical political
developments such as RFK Jr touted as health secretary and would influence
policy over response to evolving infectious agents.
Plus people (eg- Martin Harran and JJ Lodder) are going to blow steam as
they see us nose dive into the Trumpian sewer from afar as NATO fragments
while Putin ascends upon their doorsteps.

There is no need for NATO to fragment. Other than the USA, and perhaps
Turkey, it's holding together pretty well.

<cough> Hungary <cough>

Good point.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by jillery
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:39:24 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 07:48:38 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson

Post by erik simpson

Post by J. J. Lodder

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Unsatisfactory politics may have scientific consequences,
as seen before WWII.
It looks like the USA is getting ready to give back
some of 'Hitler's present'.
European universities will no doubt be willing to accomodate
outstanding scientific refugies.
The fact that some of their lecturing is in English these days
will make it easier,
Jan

As you see, we are pretty messed up, but then the whole world is pretty
messed up. There are encouraging signs here and there, so let's hope
for the best.

A-a-a-a-nd so much for the moratorium.

I don’t see a moratorium as workable. There are somewhat topical political
developments such as RFK Jr touted as health secretary and would influence
policy over response to evolving infectious agents.
Plus people (eg- Martin Harran and JJ Lodder) are going to blow steam as
they see us nose dive into the Trumpian sewer from afar as NATO fragments
while Putin ascends upon their doorsteps.

There is no need for NATO to fragment. Other than the USA, and perhaps
Turkey, it's holding together pretty well.

<cough> Hungary <cough>

Good point.

OK, I accept that. I went to a meeting in Badacsony and was surprised
to learn that the organizer, a distinguished scientist that I admire,
was a supporter of Orbán. However, that was in 2013; maybe he's changed
his views since. Another Hungarian scientist that I know is very
conservative and anti-communist in her opinions. However, I haven't
seen her since 1999, and I don't know what she thinks of Orbán. On the
other hand, the late Tamás Keleti and his wife were possibly the last
sincere communists left in Hungary.

[jillery]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 08:13:43 -0800, erik simpson

Post by erik simpson
I'd like to propose a moratorium on political posts, as they are
off-topic. I see general agreement on the unsatisfactory state of
affairs here in the US, but for now there's little anybody can do about it.

Do you mean until the next time you credit Trump for things he didn't
do?