Lee Spetner has passed away.

[RonO]

https://evolutionnews.org/2024/08/lee-spetners-nonrandom-evolutionary-hypothesis/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Spetner

The ID perps have put up a couple of articles on Lee Spetner who died
Aug. 9th. at the age of 91. Spetner is likely most remembered as an
anti-evolution Jewish creationist. He is likely best remembered here on
TO as not understanding the evidence for biological evolution (probably
due to willful denial, he was one of the Archaeopteryx deniers claiming
it was a fraud), and being a Behe like tweeker designer believer (the
original created kinds would have had to evolve into the millions of
species we have today). Wiki claims that he had some Talmudic belief in
365 original created kinds that have diversified into what we have today
by nonrandom evolution. I do not recall his last book "The Evolution
Revolution: Why Thinking People are Rethinking Evolution" was ever
discussed very much on TO.

Wiki notes that he "vehemently rejected" teaching creationism in public
schools.

Ron Okimoto

[erik simpson]

Post by RonO
https://evolutionnews.org/2024/08/lee-spetners-nonrandom-evolutionary-hypothesis/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Spetner
The ID perps have put up a couple of articles on Lee Spetner who died
Aug. 9th. at the age of 91.  Spetner is likely most remembered as an
anti-evolution Jewish creationist.  He is likely best remembered here on
TO as not understanding the evidence for biological evolution (probably
due to willful denial, he was one of the Archaeopteryx deniers claiming
it was a fraud), and being a Behe like tweeker designer believer (the
original created kinds would have had to evolve into the millions of
species we have today).  Wiki claims that he had some Talmudic belief in
365 original created kinds that have diversified into what we have today
by nonrandom evolution.  I do not recall his last book "The Evolution
Revolution: Why Thinking People are Rethinking Evolution" was ever
discussed very much on TO.
Wiki notes that he "vehemently rejected" teaching creationism in public
schools.
Ron Okimoto

Sounds like a real outlier. I'd never heard of him before.

[RonO]

Post by erik simpson

Post by RonO
https://evolutionnews.org/2024/08/lee-spetners-nonrandom-evolutionary-hypothesis/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Spetner
The ID perps have put up a couple of articles on Lee Spetner who died
Aug. 9th. at the age of 91.  Spetner is likely most remembered as an
anti-evolution Jewish creationist.  He is likely best remembered here
on TO as not understanding the evidence for biological evolution
(probably due to willful denial, he was one of the Archaeopteryx
deniers claiming it was a fraud), and being a Behe like tweeker
designer believer (the original created kinds would have had to evolve
into the millions of species we have today).  Wiki claims that he had
some Talmudic belief in 365 original created kinds that have
diversified into what we have today by nonrandom evolution.  I do not
recall his last book "The Evolution Revolution: Why Thinking People
are Rethinking Evolution" was ever discussed very much on TO.
Wiki notes that he "vehemently rejected" teaching creationism in
public schools.
Ron Okimoto

Sounds like a real outlier. I'd never heard of him before.

He came to TO attention in the late 1990's when scientific creationism
was still the major topic on TO. He was some type of MIT
engineer/physicist that conformed to the Salem hypothesis. He probably
understood that scientific creationism was bogus, but he could not give
up on the denial. Wiki claims that he believed in directed evolution,
but I just recall denial that biological evolution could not be
accounted for by natural mechanisms. It sounds like his views were
probably similar to Denton's and Behe's before Denton started spouting
his Diestic beliefs around the turn of the century. As I noted, his
last book in 2014 passed without much notice here on TO.

Ron Okimoto

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 14:19:56 -0500

Post by RonO

Post by RonO
https://evolutionnews.org/2024/08/lee-spetners-nonrandom-evolutionary-hypothesis/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Spetner

[]

Post by RonO
He came to TO attention in the late 1990's when scientific creationism
was still the major topic on TO. He was some type of MIT
engineer/physicist that conformed to the Salem hypothesis. He probably
understood that scientific creationism was bogus, but he could not give
up on the denial. Wiki claims that he believed in directed evolution,
but I just recall denial that biological evolution could not be
accounted for by natural mechanisms. It sounds like his views were
probably similar to Denton's and Behe's before Denton started spouting
his Diestic beliefs around the turn of the century. As I noted, his
last book in 2014 passed without much notice here on TO.

You're still fighting this old battle; but there doesn't seem to be anyone
here arguing /for/ 'scientific creationism' or ID.

[RonO]

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 14:19:56 -0500

Post by RonO

Post by RonO
https://evolutionnews.org/2024/08/lee-spetners-nonrandom-evolutionary-hypothesis/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Spetner

[]

Post by RonO
He came to TO attention in the late 1990's when scientific creationism
was still the major topic on TO. He was some type of MIT
engineer/physicist that conformed to the Salem hypothesis. He probably
understood that scientific creationism was bogus, but he could not give
up on the denial. Wiki claims that he believed in directed evolution,
but I just recall denial that biological evolution could not be
accounted for by natural mechanisms. It sounds like his views were
probably similar to Denton's and Behe's before Denton started spouting
his Diestic beliefs around the turn of the century. As I noted, his
last book in 2014 passed without much notice here on TO.

You're still fighting this old battle; but there doesn't seem to be anyone
here arguing /for/ 'scientific creationism' or ID.

There is no fighting old battles. The ID perps shot themselves in the
head back in 2017 and pretty much ended viable discussion about the ID
scam on TO. Most of the then posting IDiots quit supporting the ID scam
back then. ID was just kept stumbling along in zombie mode by Nyiko,
Glenn and to a lesser extent Dean. All that I am doing is updating TO
on the current state of the ID scam, and what they consider to be news.
There hasn't been any legitimate support for the ID scam on TO for well
over half a decade, but the ID perps are still selling ID as bait for
their current public school bait and switch Wedge strategy. West
Virginia just got their teach ID scam Act signed by their Governor, and
they obviously do not know what they can teach about ID because the ID
perps have told them not to teach any of the junk and go with the
obfuscation and denial switch scam that the ID perps tell them has
nothing to do with intelligent design. So there isn't much to discuss
except what the current state of the ID scam is, and historical junk
that seems to be forgotten.

About all we have to discuss on the topic are historical reviews. The
ID perps have been the most effective deterrent for teaching creationism
in the public schools since they started running the bait and switch on
hapless rubes that believed them over 2 decades ago. They fouled up in
Dover and didn't follow up when they ran the bait and switch on the
Dover rubes, and they seemed to have been asleep at the switch with West
Virginia because it looks like they never replace the ID perp who's job
it was to make sure that the bait and switch went down after she ran the
previous scam on the Utah rubes back in 2017. She left the Discovery
Institute, and her position is no longer listed on their web site, at
least it wasn't listed when I checked after the West Virginia stupidity
broke into the news.

Ron Okimoto