40,000 year old eyed sewing needles

[RonO]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/science/eyed-needles-fashion-prehistoric-clothing-scn/index.html

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adp2887

It looks like eyed sewing needles were invented around 40,000 years ago
(deep into the ice age) in Asia. The authors speculate that the
invention may signify two major developments: "The emergence of
underwear in layered garment assemblages, and/or a transition in
adornment from body modification to decorating clothing." They do not
explain what they mean by "underwear" but cite a previous paper by one
of the authors from 2010 that is paywalled, with no description in the
abstract. The fact is that sewing hides together and adorning such
clothing does not require eyed needles as the authors do concede in the
paper. Eyed needles just make sewing less of a pain in the butt (you
don't have to keep filling the knotched needle or forcing the "thread"
through the holes that you make with an awl, but the time limiting step
is likely still punching the initial holes in the hide or shell or other
adornment with the awl.

The authors seem to miss an obvious factor for why eyed needles are
better than knotched needles to get the "thread" through in sewing
clothing. Eyed needles are pretty much required for sewing cloth made
of fibers. The simple knotched needle would catch and fray the fiberous
cloth, but the eyed needle would allow efficient sewing of fiberous
cloth. This just means that the invention would have been required if
humans had started to make woven fabric out of animal hair or plant
material. Utzi had an insulating layer of plant fiber under his leather
clothing. My take is that the eyed needle may signal the start of
weaving, and sewing together woven cloth. It may have been thick and
rough blanket like material, and you would need eyed needles to sew it
together to make fitted clothing. The undercoat of a wooly mammoth is
supposed to be very fine and soft and would have probably made kashmir
type yarn. The mammoth skin may have been too heavy to use for
clothing, but scraping off the hair would have produced a lot of yarn.

Ron Okimoto

[JTEM]

Post by RonO
It looks like eyed sewing needles were invented around 40,000 years ago
(deep into the ice age) in Asia.  The authors speculate that the
invention may signify two major developments: "The emergence of
underwear in layered garment assemblages, and/or a transition in
adornment from body modification to decorating clothing."  They do not
explain what they mean by "underwear" but cite a previous paper by one
of the authors from 2010 that is paywalled, with no description in the
abstract.  The fact is that sewing hides together and adorning such
clothing does not require eyed needles as the authors do concede in the
paper.  Eyed needles just make sewing less of a pain in the butt (you
don't have to keep filling the knotched needle or forcing the "thread"
through the holes that you make with an awl, but the time limiting step
is likely still punching the initial holes in the hide or shell or other
adornment with the awl.

But wouldn't you agree that this has all the hallmarks of a preservation
bias?

Clearly if you're going to romp around cold, snowy regions you're going
to need clothing. And shoes. But...

Did you know that the very first condom, or one of the first examples
of a condom is found in ancient Egypt BUT, it appears to have been used
to protect the willy from insects and the sun, not as birth control.

Work with me here...

Is it at all possible that clothing may have been invented for similar
reasons? In other words, NOT to tramp around in the snow but to prevent
sunburn and insect bites all over the body?

There have been many who have argued that red ochre was used by early
(archaic) Homo NOT as a decoration but for protection... a role that
may have been replaced by clothing?

So, as always, I have to twist these things around. They say, "Look!
Sewing needles! Clothes!" Fine. What did it replace?

We've had such conversations elsewhere, like with animal hide tanning
and felt making...

Could the Neanderthals have been tanning hides tens of thousands of
yours earlier? Of course they could. But did they? What would the
evidence look like?

The issue, of course, is that if sewing needles are associated with
cold environments then they either had something else before the
sewing needles, or entry into those cold regions had to wait until
someone who did NOT live in that colder religion invented the sewing
needle...

[RonO]

Post by JTEM

Post by RonO
It looks like eyed sewing needles were invented around 40,000 years
ago (deep into the ice age) in Asia.  The authors speculate that the
invention may signify two major developments: "The emergence of
underwear in layered garment assemblages, and/or a transition in
adornment from body modification to decorating clothing."  They do not
explain what they mean by "underwear" but cite a previous paper by one
of the authors from 2010 that is paywalled, with no description in the
abstract.  The fact is that sewing hides together and adorning such
clothing does not require eyed needles as the authors do concede in
the paper.  Eyed needles just make sewing less of a pain in the butt
(you don't have to keep filling the knotched needle or forcing the
"thread" through the holes that you make with an awl, but the time
limiting step is likely still punching the initial holes in the hide
or shell or other adornment with the awl.

But wouldn't you agree that this has all the hallmarks of a preservation
bias?
Clearly if you're going to romp around cold, snowy regions you're going
to need clothing. And shoes. But...
Did you know that the very first condom, or one of the first examples
of a condom is found in ancient Egypt BUT, it appears to have been used
to protect the willy from insects and the sun, not as birth control.
Work with me here...
Is it at all possible that clothing may have been invented for similar
reasons?  In other words, NOT to tramp around in the snow but to prevent
sunburn and insect bites all over the body?
There have been many who have argued that red ochre was used by early
(archaic) Homo NOT as a decoration but for protection... a role that
may have been replaced by clothing?
So, as always, I have to twist these things around. They say, "Look!
Sewing needles! Clothes!" Fine. What did it replace?
We've had such conversations elsewhere, like with animal hide tanning
and felt making...
Could the Neanderthals have been tanning hides tens of thousands of
yours earlier?  Of course they could. But did they?  What would the
evidence look like?
The issue, of course, is that if sewing needles are associated with
cold environments then they either had something else before the
sewing needles, or entry into those cold regions had to wait until
someone who did NOT live in that colder religion invented the sewing
needle...

The authors admit that humans were sewing clothes together for a very
long time before the invention of the eyed needle. It isn't a major
invention, and they also admit that preservation bias could limit what
has been preserved. Such small implements may have degraded in the
Southern hemisphere (often warmer than the North), but in the Northerly
regions of Asia we have bone fragments that we can extract DNA from. We
haven't been able to get really old DNA out of the bones from Southern
Asia and Africa.

The older sewing tools would work just fine for sewing hides. Eyed
needles are pretty much required for sewing fiberous cloth.

Ron Okimoto