Anserifornes existed 67 million years ago

[RonO]

https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese-paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica

Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or extant
ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica. The
molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed for more
than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have branched
off from Galliformes around 70 million years. Neoaves is supposed to
have branched off 67 million years ago. It looks like the latests
molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1

Ron Okimoto

[John Harshman]

Post by RonO
https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese-paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica
Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or extant
ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica.  The
molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed for more
than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have branched
off from Galliformes around 70 million years.  Neoaves is supposed to
have branched off 67 million years ago.  It looks like the latests
molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1

I think you may be a little confused about the dating. The supposed
Antarctic Cretaceous anseriform would be Vegavis, and its identity has
been strongly questioned. It might in fact be a stem-neornithine. In the
study, the oldest fossil used to date Anseriformes was Conflicto, and
that's Paleocene, while Presbyornis and others are younger.

[Ernest Major]

Post by John Harshman

Post by RonO
https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese-
paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica
Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or extant
ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica.  The
molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed for
more than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have
branched off from Galliformes around 70 million years.  Neoaves is
supposed to have branched off 67 million years ago.  It looks like the
latests molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1

I think you may be a little confused about the dating. The supposed
Antarctic Cretaceous anseriform would be Vegavis, and its identity has
been strongly questioned. It might in fact be a stem-neornithine. In the
study, the oldest fossil used to date Anseriformes was Conflicto, and
that's Paleocene, while Presbyornis and others are younger.

The science.org link reports a recent publication on a Vegavis skull,
which places Vegavis as a (stem?) anseriform.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08390-0

[John Harshman]

Post by Ernest Major

Post by John Harshman

Post by RonO
https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese-
paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica
Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or
extant ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica.
The molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed
for more than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have
branched off from Galliformes around 70 million years.  Neoaves is
supposed to have branched off 67 million years ago.  It looks like
the latests molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1

I think you may be a little confused about the dating. The supposed
Antarctic Cretaceous anseriform would be Vegavis, and its identity has
been strongly questioned. It might in fact be a stem-neornithine. In
the study, the oldest fossil used to date Anseriformes was Conflicto,
and that's Paleocene, while Presbyornis and others are younger.

The science.org link reports a recent publication on a Vegavis skull,
which places Vegavis as a (stem?) anseriform.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08390-0

Various publications have put it in various places. However, it wasn't
used in the cited study.

[RonO]

Post by John Harshman

Post by RonO
https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese-
paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica
Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or extant
ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica.  The
molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed for
more than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have
branched off from Galliformes around 70 million years.  Neoaves is
supposed to have branched off 67 million years ago.  It looks like the
latests molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1

I think you may be a little confused about the dating. The supposed
Antarctic Cretaceous anseriform would be Vegavis, and its identity has
been strongly questioned. It might in fact be a stem-neornithine. In the
study, the oldest fossil used to date Anseriformes was Conflicto, and
that's Paleocene, while Presbyornis and others are younger.

It would be the authors of the study that would be confused, and would
have incorrectly identified and dated their fossil.

Ron Okimoto

[John Harshman]

Post by RonO

Post by John Harshman

Post by RonO
https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese-
paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica
Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or
extant ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica.
The molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed
for more than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have
branched off from Galliformes around 70 million years.  Neoaves is
supposed to have branched off 67 million years ago.  It looks like
the latests molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1

I think you may be a little confused about the dating. The supposed
Antarctic Cretaceous anseriform would be Vegavis, and its identity has
been strongly questioned. It might in fact be a stem-neornithine. In
the study, the oldest fossil used to date Anseriformes was Conflicto,
and that's Paleocene, while Presbyornis and others are younger.

It would be the authors of the study that would be confused, and would
have incorrectly identified and dated their fossil.

I was talking about the Nature paper, which made no use of Vegavis.

[Kestrel Clayton]

Post by RonO
https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese-
paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica
Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or extant
ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica.  The
molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed for more
than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have branched
off from Galliformes around 70 million years.  Neoaves is supposed to
have branched off 67 million years ago.  It looks like the latests
molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1

It's nice to think the dinosaurs of the late Cretaceous may have been
tormented on a lovely morning in the village by a horrible goose.