Discussion:
The real top predator
(too old to reply)
Richard Norman
2013-09-12 19:47:13 UTC
Permalink
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/

This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html

It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"

http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp

A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"

http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/

They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.

Apparently the author of the reviewed book thinks it already too late:
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "

Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.

This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
eridanus
2013-09-12 21:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nuclear power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
I have watched a few videos about this and it is really scary One about
Queensland province of Australia, with extremely venomous jellyfishes,
that are almost invisible to naked eye, for they are transparent. In another
video was in Japan about the fishing trawlers collecting giant jellyfishes.
Watching the net of trawler collecting only tons of jellyfishes was rather scary.
The water all around the trawler was full of these creatures of a pink color.
·Eridanus
jonathan
2013-09-12 23:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by eridanus
I have watched a few videos about this and it is really scary One about
Queensland province of Australia, with extremely venomous jellyfishes,
that are almost invisible to naked eye, for they are transparent. In another
video was in Japan about the fishing trawlers collecting giant
jellyfishes.
Watching the net of trawler collecting only tons of jellyfishes was rather scary.
The water all around the trawler was full of these creatures of a pink color.
·Eridanus
And just last night I was watching an interview with Diani Nyad
who just swam from Florida to Cuba, she was criticized for using
a wetsuit as if that was cheating,

Sharks, no problem, it's the deadly jellyfish, she said

Diana Nyad: Jellyfish Armor for the 2012 Xtreme Dream Swim

jonathan
2013-09-12 23:11:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
And one could infer that would produce even greater complexity
at the top of the evolutionary ladder.

That's because the underlying relationship between the top and
bottom in a self organized system is to imagine a pyramid made
up of many thin horizontal layers. An organized system will tend
to have an equal amount of power or effect among each layer.
So the bottom layer will have a similar level of effect on the
whole as the top layer.

So, the broader the base, the higher the peak.
The healthier the lowest forms of life, the more
evolved or complex at the top.



s
Richard Norman
2013-09-13 01:48:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by jonathan
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
And one could infer that would produce even greater complexity
at the top of the evolutionary ladder.
That's because the underlying relationship between the top and
bottom in a self organized system is to imagine a pyramid made
up of many thin horizontal layers. An organized system will tend
to have an equal amount of power or effect among each layer.
So the bottom layer will have a similar level of effect on the
whole as the top layer.
So, the broader the base, the higher the peak.
The healthier the lowest forms of life, the more
evolved or complex at the top.
So now you have some sort of equipartition theorem about complexity
whereby the energy levels are distributed. Show me some citations,
please.

It is a strange theory when it allows the base to completely eradicate
the higher layers.
Roger Shrubber
2013-09-13 02:11:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
Post by jonathan
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
And one could infer that would produce even greater complexity
at the top of the evolutionary ladder.
That's because the underlying relationship between the top and
bottom in a self organized system is to imagine a pyramid made
up of many thin horizontal layers. An organized system will tend
to have an equal amount of power or effect among each layer.
So the bottom layer will have a similar level of effect on the
whole as the top layer.
So, the broader the base, the higher the peak.
The healthier the lowest forms of life, the more
evolved or complex at the top.
So now you have some sort of equipartition theorem about complexity
whereby the energy levels are distributed. Show me some citations,
please.
It is a strange theory when it allows the base to completely eradicate
the higher layers.
I'm still unclear if human enteric bacteria sit at the top of the
pyramid or if bovine enteric bacteria sit higher. The bovine sort
have manipulated humans into burning down rain forests to make
more room for cattle, and even induced humans to press a eugenics
program to strengthen their genetic heritage, especially against
compounds derived from their mortal enemies, the fungi.
William Morse
2013-09-13 03:37:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
I kind of think the bacteria have been there all along. But I completely
agree that we can't continue to take out the top predators (sperm
whales, sharks, tuna, etc.), and continue to change ocean chemistry by
increasing acidity, and think we won't see massive changes in biota.
Post by Richard Norman
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
jillery
2013-09-13 02:19:36 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
Walter Bushell
2013-09-13 11:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "„a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,∑ I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable∑. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.

Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Paul J Gans
2013-09-13 15:03:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "???a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,??? I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable???. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Nah. We will weaponize them. Drop tons of them from the air,
load water supplies with them. Find a way to fire compressed
jellies from rifles. And many more.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
James Beck
2013-09-13 19:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "„a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,∑ I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable∑. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.

The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.

Progressive brining:
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.

Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.

Stage 3 (Premium method. Some people skip stage 3 and go to stage 4):
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.

Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.

Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.

Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.

Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Richard Norman
2013-09-13 19:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "„a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,∑ I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable∑. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.
The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.
Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.
Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.
Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.
Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
If you really want to pursue this line seriously, then read "Jellyfish
as Food"
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-010-0722-1_2

With about 10 to 12 kcal/100 gram in the unprocessed state you would
have to eat over 20 pounds (10 kg) of jellyfish a day to get just half
your calories. Of course they are protein rich with virtully no fat.
But also no vitamins.

As a delicacy or specilized side dish, ok. As a main course, I doubt
it.
James Beck
2013-09-13 21:27:51 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:52:11 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "„a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,∑ I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable∑. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.
The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.
Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.
Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.
Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.
Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
If you really want to pursue this line seriously, then read "Jellyfish
as Food"
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-010-0722-1_2
With about 10 to 12 kcal/100 gram in the unprocessed state you would
have to eat over 20 pounds (10 kg) of jellyfish a day to get just half
your calories. Of course they are protein rich with virtully no fat.
But also no vitamins.
As a delicacy or specilized side dish, ok. As a main course, I doubt
it.
Shouldn't that be obvious to the people worth talking to here? Meat
and fish have 7-8 grams of protein per ounce, so jellyfish are a
relatively inefficient source. 'Less than yummy... add ...to something
else,' is a dead giveaway, too. Even the Chinese mainly use jellyfish
medicinally. My own bent would be dehydrate-grind-use for fertilizer.

However, eating jellyfish may help arthritis, heart disease, and high
blood pressure. Hence the recipe.
Richard Norman
2013-09-13 21:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:52:11 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "„a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,∑ I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable∑. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.
The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.
Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.
Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.
Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.
Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
If you really want to pursue this line seriously, then read "Jellyfish
as Food"
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-010-0722-1_2
With about 10 to 12 kcal/100 gram in the unprocessed state you would
have to eat over 20 pounds (10 kg) of jellyfish a day to get just half
your calories. Of course they are protein rich with virtully no fat.
But also no vitamins.
As a delicacy or specilized side dish, ok. As a main course, I doubt
it.
Shouldn't that be obvious to the people worth talking to here? Meat
and fish have 7-8 grams of protein per ounce, so jellyfish are a
relatively inefficient source. 'Less than yummy... add ...to something
else,' is a dead giveaway, too. Even the Chinese mainly use jellyfish
medicinally. My own bent would be dehydrate-grind-use for fertilizer.
However, eating jellyfish may help arthritis, heart disease, and high
blood pressure. Hence the recipe.
I apologize. It is so common to respond to the people truly not worth
talking to (but, then, why do we do it so much?) that I forget that
there really are people here who know an awful lot -- in many (if not
all) cases far more than me.
James Beck
2013-09-13 23:15:18 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:46:01 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:52:11 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "„a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,∑ I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable∑. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.
The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.
Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.
Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.
Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.
Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
If you really want to pursue this line seriously, then read "Jellyfish
as Food"
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-010-0722-1_2
With about 10 to 12 kcal/100 gram in the unprocessed state you would
have to eat over 20 pounds (10 kg) of jellyfish a day to get just half
your calories. Of course they are protein rich with virtully no fat.
But also no vitamins.
As a delicacy or specilized side dish, ok. As a main course, I doubt
it.
Shouldn't that be obvious to the people worth talking to here? Meat
and fish have 7-8 grams of protein per ounce, so jellyfish are a
relatively inefficient source. 'Less than yummy... add ...to something
else,' is a dead giveaway, too. Even the Chinese mainly use jellyfish
medicinally. My own bent would be dehydrate-grind-use for fertilizer.
However, eating jellyfish may help arthritis, heart disease, and high
blood pressure. Hence the recipe.
[snip]

The big, dangling target in the prior post was 'use for fertilizer.'
It's fair to ask why we don't do some version of that already.
Jellyfish pH is around 4 (the most acidic dead beef is around 5.2), so
overapplication inhibits or stops plant growth. That means either that
we can only use a little at a time, or we need a stinky, costly
intermediate step.
Richard Norman
2013-09-14 01:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:46:01 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:52:11 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "„a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,∑ I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable∑. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.
The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.
Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.
Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.
Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.
Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
If you really want to pursue this line seriously, then read "Jellyfish
as Food"
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-010-0722-1_2
With about 10 to 12 kcal/100 gram in the unprocessed state you would
have to eat over 20 pounds (10 kg) of jellyfish a day to get just half
your calories. Of course they are protein rich with virtully no fat.
But also no vitamins.
As a delicacy or specilized side dish, ok. As a main course, I doubt
it.
Shouldn't that be obvious to the people worth talking to here? Meat
and fish have 7-8 grams of protein per ounce, so jellyfish are a
relatively inefficient source. 'Less than yummy... add ...to something
else,' is a dead giveaway, too. Even the Chinese mainly use jellyfish
medicinally. My own bent would be dehydrate-grind-use for fertilizer.
However, eating jellyfish may help arthritis, heart disease, and high
blood pressure. Hence the recipe.
[snip]
The big, dangling target in the prior post was 'use for fertilizer.'
It's fair to ask why we don't do some version of that already.
Jellyfish pH is around 4 (the most acidic dead beef is around 5.2), so
overapplication inhibits or stops plant growth. That means either that
we can only use a little at a time, or we need a stinky, costly
intermediate step.
The internet is a wonderful place. Try "Preliminary Study on the
Potential Usefulness of Jellyfish as Fertilizer" from Bulletin of
the Society of Sea Water Science, Japan (2004).
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200409/000020040904A0305318.php

or "Method for producing fertilizer from jellyfish" patent JP
2007197281 A
http://ip.com/patfam/en/38452248
Walter Bushell
2013-09-14 12:09:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:46:01 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 15:52:11 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-
taking-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_b
lacksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "â•ıa global regime shift from a fish to
a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fis
h-to-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,â√Œ I had a naive gut feeling that
all
was still salvageableâ√Œ. But I think I underestimated how severely
we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.
The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.
Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.
Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.
Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.
Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
If you really want to pursue this line seriously, then read "Jellyfish
as Food"
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-010-0722-1_2
With about 10 to 12 kcal/100 gram in the unprocessed state you would
have to eat over 20 pounds (10 kg) of jellyfish a day to get just half
your calories. Of course they are protein rich with virtully no fat.
But also no vitamins.
As a delicacy or specilized side dish, ok. As a main course, I doubt
it.
Shouldn't that be obvious to the people worth talking to here? Meat
and fish have 7-8 grams of protein per ounce, so jellyfish are a
relatively inefficient source. 'Less than yummy... add ...to something
else,' is a dead giveaway, too. Even the Chinese mainly use jellyfish
medicinally. My own bent would be dehydrate-grind-use for fertilizer.
However, eating jellyfish may help arthritis, heart disease, and high
blood pressure. Hence the recipe.
[snip]
The big, dangling target in the prior post was 'use for fertilizer.'
It's fair to ask why we don't do some version of that already.
Jellyfish pH is around 4 (the most acidic dead beef is around 5.2), so
overapplication inhibits or stops plant growth. That means either that
we can only use a little at a time, or we need a stinky, costly
intermediate step.
I don't know, use as a protein source seems like it would have a
higher value, extract the protein or feed it to animals.

<http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Jellyfish-protein-boosts-
cognitive-function-and-wins-patent-protection>

summary in URL

Protein quality is low, however the main protein in jellyfish is sold
as a supplement.

If food manufactures can sell soy as a health food, surely they can
sell jellies maybe with less processing.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Walter Bushell
2013-09-14 12:01:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by jillery
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:47:13 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-tak
ing-
over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blac
ksea
.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "â•ıa global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-t
o-a-
jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,â√Œ I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageableâ√Œ. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Where are the sea turtles when you need them?
Soup, anyone?
We gotta find a way to eat jellies, use them for animal food or at
least as a feedstock for plastic.
Feed the jellies to cockroaches (perhaps-- some insect can eat them)
and the roaches to chickens?
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.
The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.
Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.
Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.
Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.
Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
If you really want to pursue this line seriously, then read "Jellyfish
as Food"
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-010-0722-1_2
With about 10 to 12 kcal/100 gram in the unprocessed state you would
have to eat over 20 pounds (10 kg) of jellyfish a day to get just half
your calories. Of course they are protein rich with virtully no fat.
But also no vitamins.
As a delicacy or specilized side dish, ok. As a main course, I doubt
it.
Our food manufactures can transmute it to anything they can sell.
Protein bars, and maybe even vegetarians could be persuaded to eat it,
they no face or maternal care, and no central nervous system.

Only way to help save the oceans from going totally jelly. And if they
do we better be ready given the dependence of so many people on fish.

Using them as poultry food would allow reduced use of fish for poultry
food. In fact, we could use them to slow or eliminate the clearing of
forests for soy production.

As an ingredient in a main dish, and it can counter at least on form
of arthritis. Perhaps as a meat extender or substitute, and, of course
for animal food.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Richard Norman
2013-09-14 14:04:23 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by Richard Norman
Post by James Beck
Jellyfish is considered a delicacy in much of Asia. US companies have
tried unsuccessfully to market them there. Auburn University holds a
patent for arthritis treatment using jellyfish collagen.
The downside to jellyfish is the curing process. Remove the stingers
and oral arms. Scrape the outer layer to remove the mucus then wash.
Stage 1: Dissolve 315 g salt and 110 g alum in 1 gallon water. Add 1
gallon jellyfish globes. Soak 3 days.
Stage 2: Dissolve 615 g salt and 40 g alum in 1 gallon water. Strain
jellyfish from stage 1 and transfer to new solution. Soak 3 days.
Dissolve 820 g salt in 1 gallon water. Strain jellyfish from stage 2
and transfer to new solution. Soak 7 days.
Stage 4: Drain well. Dredge in salt then stack. Limit the stacks to
about 1/3 m. Top with a round, 4 kg weight. Leave stacked for 3 days.
Bag and store.
Preparation: Rinse the cured jellyfish and soak at least 3 hours,
preferably overnight. Cut in strips or dice, and scald or saute. Serve
over salads or mix with other meat, fish, or vegatables.
Approximate composition: After desalting and soaking, the jellyfish is
about 95% water and 4%-5% protein. A 4-oz serving has about 30
calories, 120 mg sodium, negligible fat, and about 8 g protein.
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
If you really want to pursue this line seriously, then read "Jellyfish
as Food"
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-010-0722-1_2
With about 10 to 12 kcal/100 gram in the unprocessed state you would
have to eat over 20 pounds (10 kg) of jellyfish a day to get just half
your calories. Of course they are protein rich with virtully no fat.
But also no vitamins.
As a delicacy or specilized side dish, ok. As a main course, I doubt
it.
Our food manufactures can transmute it to anything they can sell.
Protein bars, and maybe even vegetarians could be persuaded to eat it,
they no face or maternal care, and no central nervous system.
Only way to help save the oceans from going totally jelly. And if they
do we better be ready given the dependence of so many people on fish.
Using them as poultry food would allow reduced use of fish for poultry
food. In fact, we could use them to slow or eliminate the clearing of
forests for soy production.
As an ingredient in a main dish, and it can counter at least on form
of arthritis. Perhaps as a meat extender or substitute, and, of course
for animal food.
As always seems to be the case I would imagine the real issue to be
economics rather than nutrition. How much would it cost per gram of
protein to get it from jellyfish as opposed to other sources? Of
course this means getting it in a way that would actually be usable by
the target population, whether that target be humans, chickens, other
animals, or plants. There is also the issue of other components of
the extract -- does it supply necessary essential fats, vitamins, and
minerals to be used as a substantial fraction of the diet? I believe
that is why fertilizer is the most likely end product for bulk jelly
flesh although the specialized use as a delicacy in human food will
remain.

As for medicinal uses, there are studies on some of the toxins as
possible sources for drugs. For arthritis, collagen has long been
investigated as a possible treatment. The question is whether there
are better, cheaper, or more effective sources of collagen than
processing jellyfish.
Walter Bushell
2013-09-14 14:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
As always seems to be the case I would imagine the real issue to be
economics rather than nutrition. How much would it cost per gram of
protein to get it from jellyfish as opposed to other sources?
Key, of course. OTOH, we gotta reduce the number of jellies,
particularly if it interferes with beach resorts and the ocean
balance. We may need to greatly reduce fish extraction.

I presume cheaper methods of extraction could be possible. Perhaps
they could be used to make biofuels?
Post by Richard Norman
Of
course this means getting it in a way that would actually be usable by
the target population, whether that target be humans, chickens, other
animals, or plants. There is also the issue of other components of
the extract -- does it supply necessary essential fats, vitamins, and
minerals to be used as a substantial fraction of the diet? I believe
that is why fertilizer is the most likely end product for bulk jelly
flesh although the specialized use as a delicacy in human food will
remain.
Other elements could be added as necessary.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Walter Bushell
2013-09-14 11:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?

BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-14 15:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Walter Bushell
2013-09-14 17:29:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.

<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-20 04:07:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
I have a friend who fed her 2 sons soy milk after age 4. They're 18
and 22 now. The older one has moobs, but the younger one doesn't. It's
a bit too slow for a Darwin award.
Walter Bushell
2013-09-21 00:05:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
I have a friend who fed her 2 sons soy milk after age 4. They're 18
and 22 now. The older one has moobs, but the younger one doesn't. It's
a bit too slow for a Darwin award.
Well I for one am not going to do an N=1. They recommend it for women
to ease menopause and recommend it as food for everyone. "Strong
enough for a woman, but gentle enough for a man, eh?!

Among the ugliest sights on the Upper West Side is a man jogging with
jiggling man boobs. If you must drink the soy milk and other soy foods
to excess, please to wear a bra. Thank you.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-21 00:22:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
I have a friend who fed her 2 sons soy milk after age 4. They're 18
and 22 now. The older one has moobs, but the younger one doesn't. It's
a bit too slow for a Darwin award.
Well I for one am not going to do an N=1. They recommend it for women
to ease menopause and recommend it as food for everyone. "Strong
enough for a woman, but gentle enough for a man, eh?!
Among the ugliest sights on the Upper West Side is a man jogging with
jiggling man boobs. If you must drink the soy milk and other soy foods
to excess, please to wear a bra. Thank you.
Other than spandex, I'm not bothered by the sight of people trying to
be healthier, but you've made me wonder whether bouncing moobs
increases the incidence of breast cancer in men. Maybe they should
wear one for health reasons.
James Beck
2013-09-20 07:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Walter Bushell
2013-09-21 00:08:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?

There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-21 08:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.

In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
Walter Bushell
2013-09-21 14:10:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-21 18:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
Mine told me that I can eat eggs and butter whenever I want. I just
can't have much of the pancakes, biscuits, toast/bread, potatoes, or
sugar. People should watch the documentary "Super Size Me" regarding
*any* of the menu choices at MacDonalds. You can't even trust the fast
food salads. Bloomberg would have done a better service by banning the
entire fastfood menu. That would have gotten their attention.
Paul J Gans
2013-09-21 20:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
Mine told me that I can eat eggs and butter whenever I want. I just
can't have much of the pancakes, biscuits, toast/bread, potatoes, or
sugar. People should watch the documentary "Super Size Me" regarding
*any* of the menu choices at MacDonalds. You can't even trust the fast
food salads. Bloomberg would have done a better service by banning the
entire fastfood menu. That would have gotten their attention.
And him hit with lawsuits.

Actually, that is what schools are for. Too much test prep,
not enough teaching.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Walter Bushell
2013-09-21 21:36:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 07:49:45 -0400, Walter Bushell
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a
bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy,
so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup,
salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with
protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
Mine told me that I can eat eggs and butter whenever I want. I just
can't have much of the pancakes, biscuits, toast/bread, potatoes, or
sugar. People should watch the documentary "Super Size Me" regarding
*any* of the menu choices at MacDonalds. You can't even trust the fast
food salads. Bloomberg would have done a better service by banning the
entire fastfood menu. That would have gotten their attention.
And him hit with lawsuits.
Anyway the public would never go for that. My reaction at McDonalds
was always "I paid all that for *that*. The food is engineered for the
first bite, but you do not want you customer satisfied, you want them
to come back soon. This is key to the whole industrial food
manufacturing business.
Post by Paul J Gans
Actually, that is what schools are for. Too much test prep,
not enough teaching.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Paul J Gans
2013-09-22 01:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 07:49:45 -0400, Walter Bushell
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a
bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy,
so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup,
salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no
problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with
protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I
would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground
barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of
untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
Mine told me that I can eat eggs and butter whenever I want. I just
can't have much of the pancakes, biscuits, toast/bread, potatoes, or
sugar. People should watch the documentary "Super Size Me" regarding
*any* of the menu choices at MacDonalds. You can't even trust the fast
food salads. Bloomberg would have done a better service by banning the
entire fastfood menu. That would have gotten their attention.
And him hit with lawsuits.
Anyway the public would never go for that. My reaction at McDonalds
was always "I paid all that for *that*. The food is engineered for the
first bite, but you do not want you customer satisfied, you want them
to come back soon. This is key to the whole industrial food
manufacturing business.
Post by Paul J Gans
Actually, that is what schools are for. Too much test prep,
not enough teaching.
You can easily get them to come back soon, as the late Fred
Pohl pointed out. Just dust the food with addictive drugs.
If they don't give a person a high, who would know?
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Walter Bushell
2013-09-22 02:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul J Gans
You can easily get them to come back soon, as the late Fred
Pohl pointed out. Just dust the food with addictive drugs.
If they don't give a person a high, who would know?
Ah, they have sugar and refined carbs, who needs drugs? Now if fast
food places could sell beer and remember the original formula coke had
cocaine, but they found they could make the stuff addictive without
cocaine. I have heard people say that getting off coca cola was hard,
harder than other sugar and caffeine sources. Something about the
combination of ingredients or the phosphoric acid perhaps? I, my self
found it hard and I went to apple juice, then cut the apple juice with
water and stevia until I could taper off that, resulting in rapid
weight loss.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Paul J Gans
2013-09-22 02:44:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by Paul J Gans
You can easily get them to come back soon, as the late Fred
Pohl pointed out. Just dust the food with addictive drugs.
If they don't give a person a high, who would know?
Ah, they have sugar and refined carbs, who needs drugs? Now if fast
food places could sell beer and remember the original formula coke had
cocaine, but they found they could make the stuff addictive without
cocaine. I have heard people say that getting off coca cola was hard,
harder than other sugar and caffeine sources. Something about the
combination of ingredients or the phosphoric acid perhaps? I, my self
found it hard and I went to apple juice, then cut the apple juice with
water and stevia until I could taper off that, resulting in rapid
weight loss.
I never had any problem giving regular coke up. What caused
me trouble back 40+ years ago was cigarettes.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Walter Bushell
2013-10-12 13:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 07:49:45 -0400, Walter Bushell
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a
bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy,
so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup,
salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with
protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
Mine told me that I can eat eggs and butter whenever I want. I just
can't have much of the pancakes, biscuits, toast/bread, potatoes, or
sugar. People should watch the documentary "Super Size Me" regarding
*any* of the menu choices at MacDonalds. You can't even trust the fast
food salads. Bloomberg would have done a better service by banning the
entire fastfood menu. That would have gotten their attention.
And him hit with lawsuits.
Actually, that is what schools are for. Too much test prep,
not enough teaching.
Fast education?
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Walter Bushell
2013-09-21 20:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup,
salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
Mine told me that I can eat eggs and butter whenever I want. I just
can't have much of the pancakes, biscuits, toast/bread, potatoes, or
sugar. People should watch the documentary "Super Size Me" regarding
*any* of the menu choices at MacDonalds. You can't even trust the fast
food salads. Bloomberg would have done a better service by banning the
entire fastfood menu. That would have gotten their attention.
But more to the point is the movie "Fathead" by Tom Naughton which
started as a critique of "Super Size Me" and developed into something
much more.


<http://www.fathead-movie.com/> -- Mr. Naughton's General site

<http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/> -- about the movie
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-21 23:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a
bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy,
so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup,
salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with
protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
Mine told me that I can eat eggs and butter whenever I want. I just
can't have much of the pancakes, biscuits, toast/bread, potatoes, or
sugar. People should watch the documentary "Super Size Me" regarding
*any* of the menu choices at MacDonalds. You can't even trust the fast
food salads. Bloomberg would have done a better service by banning the
entire fastfood menu. That would have gotten their attention.
But more to the point is the movie "Fathead" by Tom Naughton which
started as a critique of "Super Size Me" and developed into something
much more.
<http://www.fathead-movie.com/> -- Mr. Naughton's General site
<http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/> -- about the movie
I wouldn't credit it with causing the growth, though. Pennington was
out in 1958. Atkins was out in 1972. Some were before that.

Apparently, my trouble is that I develop hyperinsulinemia very quickly
and I throw out some cholesterol numbers that make doctors cringe. I
can't stand the 'eat every two hours' plan. It puts me to sleep. Low
fat diets are inevitably low protein and carbs make me swell up like a
poison toad. I wouldn't say that I'm on a low carb diet, though. It's
moderate, but mostly veggies.

On the subject of marketeers, it's risky to convince people to eat
what's cheapest to grow. On the other hand, I wonder how acidic the
oceans would be now if we weren't flooding them with alkaline
agricultural runoff.
Walter Bushell
2013-09-22 02:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
On the subject of marketeers, it's risky to convince people to eat
what's cheapest to grow.
Not for the marketeers, unless they believe their own propaganda. I
believe the last time I checked breakfast cereal was selling for about
the same price as the lower grades of beef per pound. The markup must
be fantastic as shown by the $ the marketeers can throw at the public.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Paul J Gans
2013-09-21 19:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
My mother, contrary to all opinion, medical and filial, refused
to consume any fat she could avoid, cholesterol in particular.

Eventually the circulation in her legs became impaired because
they were clogged with cholesterol. She refused to believe the
doctors and so "knew" that there were things they were not
telling her.

She passed away of "natural causes", primarily gangrene caused
by horrible leg circulation. She was 91 and had significantly
outlived her mother and father.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Walter Bushell
2013-10-12 13:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup,
salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
My mother, contrary to all opinion, medical and filial, refused
to consume any fat she could avoid, cholesterol in particular.
Cholesterol is normally regulated by the body, and is the feedstock
for many important hormones. High cholesterol is usually a sign that
something is wrong and is part of the repair attempt. Pushing it down
arbitrarily is likely to be counterproductive.

If you cut down on fat, you must needs increase carbohydrates (or
alcohol) to provide the missing calories. (I think that if you must
eat grains fresh unpasteurized (but I repeat myself) unfiltered small
beer is your best source.) But carbohydrates are inflammatory and load
the pancreas and liver.

Of course, it is well know that the fattest people in town are likely
to be heavy (pardon the pun) beer drinkers the sugars in beer are
astonishing.

But I am way off topic, unless we get into a discussion of the origins
of the successor life forms after the human extinction event which may
well rank with the Permian.

From the reconstructions of the Permian fauna, they look vastly more
alien than the dinosaurs.
Post by Paul J Gans
Eventually the circulation in her legs became impaired because
they were clogged with cholesterol. She refused to believe the
doctors and so "knew" that there were things they were not
telling her.
She passed away of "natural causes", primarily gangrene caused
by horrible leg circulation. She was 91 and had significantly
outlived her mother and father.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Paul J Gans
2013-10-12 18:47:24 UTC
Permalink
[deletions]
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
My mother, contrary to all opinion, medical and filial, refused
to consume any fat she could avoid, cholesterol in particular.
Cholesterol is normally regulated by the body, and is the feedstock
for many important hormones. High cholesterol is usually a sign that
something is wrong and is part of the repair attempt. Pushing it down
arbitrarily is likely to be counterproductive.
You would not have convinced my mother.
Post by Walter Bushell
If you cut down on fat, you must needs increase carbohydrates (or
alcohol) to provide the missing calories. (I think that if you must
eat grains fresh unpasteurized (but I repeat myself) unfiltered small
beer is your best source.) But carbohydrates are inflammatory and load
the pancreas and liver.
She kept her weight around 100 pounds. She did not look
anorexic.
Post by Walter Bushell
Of course, it is well know that the fattest people in town are likely
to be heavy (pardon the pun) beer drinkers the sugars in beer are
astonishing.
Wine isn't too shabby either.
Post by Walter Bushell
But I am way off topic, unless we get into a discussion of the origins
of the successor life forms after the human extinction event which may
well rank with the Permian.
That's an interesting point. Why have humans not further
adapted to a high carb diet? I suppose that one could
argue that we have since we now attain ages not common even
100 years ago.

But I'd have expected adaptation to have occurred thousands
of years ago.

On the other hand, what happens after the fertility window
closes is only indirectly important to fitness.
Post by Walter Bushell
From the reconstructions of the Permian fauna, they look vastly more
alien than the dinosaurs.
Oh, you've discovered that our planet was, for many millenia,
a theme park for rich Xordaxians (or Throomians, I never
could keep them apart.)
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by Paul J Gans
Eventually the circulation in her legs became impaired because
they were clogged with cholesterol. She refused to believe the
doctors and so "knew" that there were things they were not
telling her.
She passed away of "natural causes", primarily gangrene caused
by horrible leg circulation. She was 91 and had significantly
outlived her mother and father.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Walter Bushell
2013-10-13 17:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by Walter Bushell
Cholesterol is normally regulated by the body, and is the feedstock
for many important hormones. High cholesterol is usually a sign that
something is wrong and is part of the repair attempt. Pushing it down
arbitrarily is likely to be counterproductive.
You would not have convinced my mother.
"A woman convinced against her will is of the same opinion still."
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Walter Bushell
2013-10-13 17:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul J Gans
That's an interesting point. Why have humans not further
adapted to a high carb diet? I suppose that one could
argue that we have since we now attain ages not common even
100 years ago.
But I'd have expected adaptation to have occurred thousands
of years ago.
It's only been ~10-12 kiloyears at most and much less for most of us.
Post by Paul J Gans
On the other hand, what happens after the fertility window
closes is only indirectly important to fitness.
We have somewhat. We have seen the devastation introducing the Western
diet to people not used to it and have no defense. Also modern wheat
is very different to the wheat of 50 years ago even much less that of
early agriculture. Forget the amber waves of grain, nowadays its all
dwarf wheat. Some people can eat spelt who cannot eat modern wheat for
example.

To top it off cheap sugar has only be present for a very short time,
evolutionarily speaking. And then we have polyunsaturated industrial
seed oils in quantity which we never did have and then the period of
transfats uber alles.

I better stop, before I start to rant.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Paul J Gans
2013-10-13 18:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by Paul J Gans
That's an interesting point. Why have humans not further
adapted to a high carb diet? I suppose that one could
argue that we have since we now attain ages not common even
100 years ago.
But I'd have expected adaptation to have occurred thousands
of years ago.
It's only been ~10-12 kiloyears at most and much less for most of us.
Post by Paul J Gans
On the other hand, what happens after the fertility window
closes is only indirectly important to fitness.
We have somewhat. We have seen the devastation introducing the Western
diet to people not used to it and have no defense. Also modern wheat
is very different to the wheat of 50 years ago even much less that of
early agriculture. Forget the amber waves of grain, nowadays its all
dwarf wheat. Some people can eat spelt who cannot eat modern wheat for
example.
To top it off cheap sugar has only be present for a very short time,
evolutionarily speaking. And then we have polyunsaturated industrial
seed oils in quantity which we never did have and then the period of
transfats uber alles.
I better stop, before I start to rant.
You don't understand the ultimate goal which is to introduce
high priced crude oil as a delicacy in the human diet. This
will not only enrich the oil industry beyond all reason, it
will, among other things, solve the population problem, global
warming, and a number of other evils.

How can you be against it?
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Robert Carnegie
2013-10-13 20:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul J Gans
You don't understand the ultimate goal which is to introduce
high priced crude oil as a delicacy in the human diet.
Practically speaking, it already is.
Post by Paul J Gans
This will not only enrich the oil industry beyond all reason,
it will, among other things, solve the population problem,
global warming, and a number of other evils.
How can you be against it?
Is it not running out fast enough?
eridanus
2013-10-13 22:51:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Paul J Gans
You don't understand the ultimate goal which is to introduce
high priced crude oil as a delicacy in the human diet.
Practically speaking, it already is.
There is a serious saying that tell, we are eating oil.
but it refers to the machinery burning diesel that our lands, and make
the harvest and transport, and process and distribute the food
on cities and suburbia, that is where most people live today.

Once the oil would be exhausted we would not how much sense is in
the saying "we are eating oil"
So far, to have so many people obese is a peace maker. For obese
people do not make revolutions. Only thin people feel enough anger
to think of a revolution, or a civil war. Hoe many days of starvation
would make all the obese people thin? By then, they would be rather
weak. Anyway, a revolution for lack of food, cause by the exhaustion
of oil do not look like there is any culprit. We all are the culprits
of this situation. Our politicians are as stupid as the average
person on each nation.
Eridanus
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Paul J Gans
This will not only enrich the oil industry beyond all reason,
it will, among other things, solve the population problem,
global warming, and a number of other evils.
How can you be against it?
Is it not running out fast enough?
Paul J Gans
2013-10-14 00:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Paul J Gans
You don't understand the ultimate goal which is to introduce
high priced crude oil as a delicacy in the human diet.
Practically speaking, it already is.
Post by Paul J Gans
This will not only enrich the oil industry beyond all reason,
it will, among other things, solve the population problem,
global warming, and a number of other evils.
How can you be against it?
Is it not running out fast enough?
We aren't eating enough of it.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
jillery
2013-09-21 21:32:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
Done, for example, I specifically dis-recommend this.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Homemade-Soy-Milk/>
Soy, IIRC is the second strongest alkali forming food after figs.
Alkalinity seems to be contraindicated in cancer treatment. The
combination of soy milk with a tumor-promoter like carrageenan seems
like it would be a really bad idea at least some of the time.
Then why are so many health books saying you have to eat an alkalizing
diet?
One of my friends was told that it prevents bone loss. On the other
hand, he quickly went from climbing mountains to heart attacks and
diabetes. Then they amputated one of his legs. Now he's in a
wheelchair. I find that sequence of events suspicious given his age
and general fitness prior to the dietary change. However, he has
already significantly outlived his father, who died of heart disease
in his forties. I doubt that there's a silver-bullet diet plan that
will work for everyone.
In my case, a high carb diet makes me gain weight very quickly. That
makes me feel generally listless and sluggish, so I try to pay
attention and eat to keep myself feeling good. For me, that means
limited starch, very little grain, almost no processed food, lean
meat, fish, eggs, and cheese, plus tough, mostly-raw veggies and some
fruit.
Post by Walter Bushell
There is just so much follow the leader. If someones authority figure
says paint yourself blue, why they just do it. If they say, "The eye
have it kill all the blues, they'll do that too."
There's the rub. Some authority figures say one thing, others the
opposite. Remember when margarine was good for you and butter and eggs
were bad? Salt was bad, bad, bad.
The majority opinion is that margarine is better than butter, eggs are
bad particularly the yolks. See the store with cartons of egg whites
and McDonalds having egg white only sandwiches, apparently new. And
people want their cholesterol to be zero, which would absolutely kill
them. General consensus is to put people on statins when because their
cholesterol is below the minimum point for total death rate, which I
have seen up to 270 ml/dl.
The majority opinion didn't consider trans-fats in margarine until
much later, and it still doesn't distinguish between dairy from
grass-fed cows and corn-fed cows.
Walter Bushell
2013-09-21 21:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Well we can't really have discussions about taste, if you like you
like if not then not, easy. Remember that tofu was introduced as a
health food outside of East Asia. (Back in the day it was at least for
me mainly in hot and sour soup and there was little health claim to be
made for that soup as it was basically thickened with sugar. The
marketeers decided that if they could get the health food people to
buy it they could get poor people to eat it.
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-21 22:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Most of the protein is collagen, so jellyfish is chewy. It's a bit
like gnawing on unflavored gummy bears. That's less than yummy, so
you'll want to add the jellyfish to something else like soup, salad,
or stir-fry.
Hey, if we can get people to eat tofu, jellies should be no problem.
Perhaps we start with a new recipe for gummy bears -- now with protein?
I like tofu. For health reasons, I don't eat much soy these days.
Doctor's orders. Unlike tofu, jellyfish is on my list of foods I would
prefer not to eat again.
Well we can't really have discussions about taste, if you like you
like if not then not, easy. Remember that tofu was introduced as a
health food outside of East Asia. (Back in the day it was at least for
me mainly in hot and sour soup and there was little health claim to be
made for that soup as it was basically thickened with sugar. The
marketeers decided that if they could get the health food people to
buy it they could get poor people to eat it.
There's a downside to just saying 'if you like you like.' I spent
nearly two years on an elimination diet so Daktari could find my
inflammatory foods. Peanuts, wheat, and soy top my list. I like all
three, but they aren't good for me. It would be much easier to give up
jellyfish, vegemite, litefisk, and sea cucumber. I'm also sensitive to
iodine, so little or no seaweed (oh darn). On the plus side, dietary
restrictions, especially the low temperature cooking restriction,
burned out my inner gourmand.
Robert Carnegie
2013-09-22 08:30:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
I think that discussing food choices and wellness outcomes is
a real good way to persuade people looking for guidance on the
evolution or creationism thing that the person talking to them
doesn't know anything about anything.

I pulled some soya cartons out of the recycling pile - these are
product as sold in Britain. One has: water, "organic" whole soya beans
(10%) (the "organic" thing isn't mentioned elsewhere on the carton),
sugar, maltodextrin, sunflower oil, acidity regulators (potassium
citrate, potassium phosphate), "natural" flavouring, calcium citrate,
"stabilisers" (cellulose gum, carrageenan), salt, vitamin D2,
iodine, vitamin B12. So that's carrageenan /way/ down the list.

Another is: water, organic soya beans (12%), organic apple juice from
concentrate (3%), salt, and that's /it/. That's the "long life" variety -
meaning the product, the user is on their own as far as that goes -
in an "aseptic" carton.

I'm legally obese, and flat-chested.
James Beck
2013-09-22 15:26:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 01:30:08 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by James Beck
Post by Walter Bushell
BTW We all know why there is no such thing as soy milk; call it soy
juice, for truth in marketeering.
Careful. Some people will try putting soybeans in their juicers. It's
a ground bean slurry with sugar and a thickener, usually ground barley
or carrageenan. Carrageenan is also on my doctor's list of untouchable
foods.
I think that discussing food choices and wellness outcomes is
a real good way to persuade people looking for guidance on the
evolution or creationism thing that the person talking to them
doesn't know anything about anything.
Contrariwise, knowing that two humans display different wellness
outcomes in reaction to the same food choice offers an excellent entre
to the subject of RM+NS.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I pulled some soya cartons out of the recycling pile - these are
product as sold in Britain. One has: water, "organic" whole soya beans
(10%) (the "organic" thing isn't mentioned elsewhere on the carton),
sugar, maltodextrin, sunflower oil, acidity regulators (potassium
citrate, potassium phosphate), "natural" flavouring, calcium citrate,
"stabilisers" (cellulose gum, carrageenan), salt, vitamin D2,
iodine, vitamin B12. So that's carrageenan /way/ down the list.
"Teensy" amounts of carrageenan can't possibly be bad for you...?
Post by Robert Carnegie
Another is: water, organic soya beans (12%), organic apple juice from
concentrate (3%), salt, and that's /it/. That's the "long life" variety -
meaning the product, the user is on their own as far as that goes -
in an "aseptic" carton.
I'm legally obese, and flat-chested.
Congratulations. Averse to wearing spandex, I hope?

Humans secrete a special brain chemical that lets them rationalize
continuing comfortable habits. If 10% of people who are exposed to the
smallpox virus die, we have no problem agreeing that smallpox causes
death. If only 10% of boys develop moobs while consuming soy, the
agricultural products industry is apt to claim that there's no
statistical evidence that soy causes moobs rather than treating those
who got moobs as a potentially interesting subpopulation.
'Interesting' subpopulations are bad for business.
Walter Bushell
2013-09-22 16:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
Congratulations. Averse to wearing spandex, I hope?
Humans secrete a special brain chemical that lets them rationalize
continuing comfortable habits. If 10% of people who are exposed to the
smallpox virus die, we have no problem agreeing that smallpox causes
death. If only 10% of boys develop moobs while consuming soy, the
agricultural products industry is apt to claim that there's no
statistical evidence that soy causes moobs rather than treating those
who got moobs as a potentially interesting subpopulation.
'Interesting' subpopulations are bad for business.
If any substantial population of men or boys get man boobies from soy,
I should think it something seriously to think about. My guess it's
interfering with their hormone systems and who knows if it's giving
the rest a push in the same direction, perhaps just carrying more body
fat or being a little physically female in other ways that don't stand
out so much. <Sorry!>

If it does that to men, just think what it might could do for women,
and for girls perhaps precocious puberty?
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-22 22:08:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Walter Bushell
Post by James Beck
Congratulations. Averse to wearing spandex, I hope?
Humans secrete a special brain chemical that lets them rationalize
continuing comfortable habits. If 10% of people who are exposed to the
smallpox virus die, we have no problem agreeing that smallpox causes
death. If only 10% of boys develop moobs while consuming soy, the
agricultural products industry is apt to claim that there's no
statistical evidence that soy causes moobs rather than treating those
who got moobs as a potentially interesting subpopulation.
'Interesting' subpopulations are bad for business.
If any substantial population of men or boys get man boobies from soy,
I should think it something seriously to think about. My guess it's
interfering with their hormone systems and who knows if it's giving
the rest a push in the same direction, perhaps just carrying more body
fat or being a little physically female in other ways that don't stand
out so much. <Sorry!>
If it does that to men, just think what it might could do for women,
and for girls perhaps precocious puberty?
Hormones are difficult. The tests are expensive and require special
handing. Testosterone has a lot of feedback. Body fat decreases
luteinzing hormone and increases aromatase. Aromatase converts
testosterone to estrogen. Visceral fat changes production of SHBG;
liver damage impairs elimination of excess estrogen and SHBG by the
liver. Vicious circle. The absolute level will be less important than
nudging it out of balance and the balance range may be a moving
target. I doubt we'll have a solid answer until we have cheap hormone
sensors.

Here's a fairly complete list of low-carb diet history, btw.

Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin, 1825
Claude Bernard, ~1851
William Banting, 1863
Sanford Bennett, 1907
Vance Thompson, 1914
John Yudkin, various
Irwin Stillman, 1967
Robert Atkins, 1972
Herman Tarnower, 1979
Michael and Mary Eades, 1996
Barry Sears, 1999

People have at least partly understood some of this for a long time.
Mark Isaak
2013-09-23 15:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Beck
[...]
Here's a fairly complete list of low-carb diet history, btw.
Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin, 1825
Claude Bernard, ~1851
William Banting, 1863
Sanford Bennett, 1907
Vance Thompson, 1914
John Yudkin, various
Irwin Stillman, 1967
Robert Atkins, 1972
Herman Tarnower, 1979
Michael and Mary Eades, 1996
Barry Sears, 1999
People have at least partly understood some of this for a long time.
Diet fads are cyclic. I expect the high-carb diet history, should
someone research it sufficiently, would be as long.

Meanwhile, what do we know that has stood stable over decades? Not a
lot. Fresh fruit and vegetables are good for you. You need certain
variety in food to get all the essential amino acids. Too much of
anything is bad for you. Smoking tobacco is hugely bad. Caloric
restriction increases lifespans in several species and may do the same
in humans.
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
Ymir
2013-09-14 06:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.

André
Richard Norman
2013-09-14 13:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ymir
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.
This would be funny except for the fact that the Irukandji are quite
real and quite toxic whereas the flying sharks live only as
representations on two-dimensional screens of various technologies.
Paul J Gans
2013-09-14 19:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
Post by Ymir
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.
This would be funny except for the fact that the Irukandji are quite
real and quite toxic whereas the flying sharks live only as
representations on two-dimensional screens of various technologies.
That's it. Until we can get the sharks and the irukandji to
start feeding on each other, I'm giving up swimming in ocean
water... ;-)
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Richard Norman
2013-09-14 20:01:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 19:45:42 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by Richard Norman
Post by Ymir
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.
This would be funny except for the fact that the Irukandji are quite
real and quite toxic whereas the flying sharks live only as
representations on two-dimensional screens of various technologies.
That's it. Until we can get the sharks and the irukandji to
start feeding on each other, I'm giving up swimming in ocean
water... ;-)
Perhaps you are unaware of the recently discovered mutation in box
jellyfish that allows them to thrive in chlorinated pool water? They
spread from pool to pool by hitching a ride on the flying sharks.
jillery
2013-09-14 21:02:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 16:01:44 -0400, Richard Norman
Post by Richard Norman
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 19:45:42 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by Richard Norman
Post by Ymir
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.
This would be funny except for the fact that the Irukandji are quite
real and quite toxic whereas the flying sharks live only as
representations on two-dimensional screens of various technologies.
That's it. Until we can get the sharks and the irukandji to
start feeding on each other, I'm giving up swimming in ocean
water... ;-)
Perhaps you are unaware of the recently discovered mutation in box
jellyfish that allows them to thrive in chlorinated pool water? They
spread from pool to pool by hitching a ride on the flying sharks.
...or in sharknados.
Paul J Gans
2013-09-15 19:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 19:45:42 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by Richard Norman
Post by Ymir
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.
This would be funny except for the fact that the Irukandji are quite
real and quite toxic whereas the flying sharks live only as
representations on two-dimensional screens of various technologies.
That's it. Until we can get the sharks and the irukandji to
start feeding on each other, I'm giving up swimming in ocean
water... ;-)
Perhaps you are unaware of the recently discovered mutation in box
jellyfish that allows them to thrive in chlorinated pool water? They
spread from pool to pool by hitching a ride on the flying sharks.
I can't argue with that. Luckily my 10th floor coop apartment
doesn't come with a pool.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Ymir
2013-09-15 00:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by Richard Norman
Post by Ymir
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taki
ng-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.
This would be funny except for the fact that the Irukandji are quite
real and quite toxic whereas the flying sharks live only as
representations on two-dimensional screens of various technologies.
That's it. Until we can get the sharks and the irukandji to
start feeding on each other, I'm giving up swimming in ocean
water... ;-)
I should clarify that the Irukandjinado really only afflicts Australians
living near the coast (i.e. most Australians).

Even more deadly, though, is the dreaded Wonggaranda marsupial burrowing
shark which has been known to feed on those who swim in the Great
Victoria Desert, and whose fins can often be seen above the sands
travelling at speeds far in excess of the average parched stranded
traveller whose car has run out of petrol.

So I think you're just plain out of luck.

André
Walter Bushell
2013-09-15 03:38:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ymir
Post by Paul J Gans
Post by Richard Norman
Post by Ymir
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-ta
ki
ng-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.
This would be funny except for the fact that the Irukandji are quite
real and quite toxic whereas the flying sharks live only as
representations on two-dimensional screens of various technologies.
That's it. Until we can get the sharks and the irukandji to
start feeding on each other, I'm giving up swimming in ocean
water... ;-)
I should clarify that the Irukandjinado really only afflicts Australians
living near the coast (i.e. most Australians).
Even more deadly, though, is the dreaded Wonggaranda marsupial burrowing
shark which has been known to feed on those who swim in the Great
Victoria Desert, and whose fins can often be seen above the sands
travelling at speeds far in excess of the average parched stranded
traveller whose car has run out of petrol.
So I think you're just plain out of luck.
André
And all the Cambrian mammals are poisonous and venomous. So if you go
to Australia don't go for the thrill o' bite.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
James Beck
2013-09-14 16:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ymir
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
This explains why Australians must live in constant terror of the
dreaded Irukandjinado - they're far more difficult to detect than the
flying sharks which prey on Californians.
How is it worse than the Bushinado we suffered recently? Of course in
Califonia, it spawned two Schwartzenados, which are Bushinados on
steroids, so I guess that's worse.
RonO
2013-09-14 14:23:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Is it really rising temperatures and acidic conditions? They must be
exploiting a food source that they did not have before. More are making
it to adulthood and breeding. My guess is that they are becoming more
successful in their juvenile stages for some reason.

Decrease in coral reefs that compete for the same food sources? Have we
removed the predators that eat them at this stage? Is this just some
weird cycle?

If it persists, my guess is that we will soon have an industry
exploiting this protein source. Currently there is no jellyfish fishery
that I know of, but if we want fertilizer and fish food for aquaculture
we will need a cheap protein source. It would be nice if we had one
that wouldn't be easily fished out like sardines, and menhaden have been
in the past.

Chicken feed used to have fish meal in it and the public benefited by
having chicken higher in omega 3 fatty acids than they get now because
we over fished the resources.

Ron Okimoto
jillery
2013-09-14 17:18:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonO
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Is it really rising temperatures and acidic conditions? They must be
exploiting a food source that they did not have before. More are making
it to adulthood and breeding. My guess is that they are becoming more
successful in their juvenile stages for some reason.
Decrease in coral reefs that compete for the same food sources? Have we
removed the predators that eat them at this stage? Is this just some
weird cycle?
If it persists, my guess is that we will soon have an industry
exploiting this protein source. Currently there is no jellyfish fishery
that I know of, but if we want fertilizer and fish food for aquaculture
we will need a cheap protein source. It would be nice if we had one
that wouldn't be easily fished out like sardines, and menhaden have been
in the past.
IIUC most jellies eat plankton. This is the same food source as
sardines and menhaden. There's an irony in there somewhere.
Post by RonO
Chicken feed used to have fish meal in it and the public benefited by
having chicken higher in omega 3 fatty acids than they get now because
we over fished the resources.
Is it known that jellyfish are high in omega 3 fatty acids?
RonO
2013-09-14 17:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by jillery
Post by RonO
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Is it really rising temperatures and acidic conditions? They must be
exploiting a food source that they did not have before. More are making
it to adulthood and breeding. My guess is that they are becoming more
successful in their juvenile stages for some reason.
Decrease in coral reefs that compete for the same food sources? Have we
removed the predators that eat them at this stage? Is this just some
weird cycle?
If it persists, my guess is that we will soon have an industry
exploiting this protein source. Currently there is no jellyfish fishery
that I know of, but if we want fertilizer and fish food for aquaculture
we will need a cheap protein source. It would be nice if we had one
that wouldn't be easily fished out like sardines, and menhaden have been
in the past.
IIUC most jellies eat plankton. This is the same food source as
sardines and menhaden. There's an irony in there somewhere.
We could be eating their competitors.
Post by jillery
Post by RonO
Chicken feed used to have fish meal in it and the public benefited by
having chicken higher in omega 3 fatty acids than they get now because
we over fished the resources.
Is it known that jellyfish are high in omega 3 fatty acids?
My guess is that they are higher. Omega 3 are used to make membranes
more fluid. At most ocean temperatures my guess is that they need a
higher percentage than we do because we maintain a higher body
temperature and the lipid are more fluid without the kinked fatty acid
side chains.

Ron Okimoto
Richard Norman
2013-09-14 18:04:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonO
Post by jillery
Post by RonO
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Is it really rising temperatures and acidic conditions? They must be
exploiting a food source that they did not have before. More are making
it to adulthood and breeding. My guess is that they are becoming more
successful in their juvenile stages for some reason.
Decrease in coral reefs that compete for the same food sources? Have we
removed the predators that eat them at this stage? Is this just some
weird cycle?
If it persists, my guess is that we will soon have an industry
exploiting this protein source. Currently there is no jellyfish fishery
that I know of, but if we want fertilizer and fish food for aquaculture
we will need a cheap protein source. It would be nice if we had one
that wouldn't be easily fished out like sardines, and menhaden have been
in the past.
IIUC most jellies eat plankton. This is the same food source as
sardines and menhaden. There's an irony in there somewhere.
We could be eating their competitors.
Post by jillery
Post by RonO
Chicken feed used to have fish meal in it and the public benefited by
having chicken higher in omega 3 fatty acids than they get now because
we over fished the resources.
Is it known that jellyfish are high in omega 3 fatty acids?
My guess is that they are higher. Omega 3 are used to make membranes
more fluid. At most ocean temperatures my guess is that they need a
higher percentage than we do because we maintain a higher body
temperature and the lipid are more fluid without the kinked fatty acid
side chains.
That would be your guess but I looked it up. The commercially
available jellyfish-as-food has less than 0.01% fat content and the
whole jellyfish is from 0.005% to 0.2% lipid. Sardines may be 10% fat.
RonO
2013-09-15 12:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
Post by RonO
Post by jillery
Post by RonO
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-over/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
It seems the jellies, the most "primitive" and possibly the oldest
multicellular animal, seems primed to recoup the role they undoubtedly
played in the Precambrian as the dominant kind of animal. It is not
just that an Irukandji is 100 times as venomous as a cobra and pose a
threat to human swimmers. It seems that these things have properties
that allow them to produce enormous blooms and take over large
ecosystems. The Black Sea was taken over by a "jelly storm" by
Mnemnipsis: "At its most jellified state during the late 1990s, the
Black Sea harbored more than one billion tons of Mnemiopsis--which
equals more than 10 times the weight of all fish caught throughout the
world annually"
http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/jellyfish/textonly/locations_blacksea.jsp
A recent UN report warns of "“a global regime shift from a fish to a
jellyfish ocean"
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/05/30/un-warns-of-global-shift-from-a-fish-to-a-jellyfish-ocean/
They also seriously interfere with industrial life. The aircraft
carrier USS Ronald Reagen was disabled in 2006 by fouling of the
nucelar power plant cooling system. A power outage affecting some 40
million people in the Phillipines was caused by jellyfish fouling.
Some 150 tons per DAY of jellies have to be removed from just one
Japanese power plant cooling system.
"When I began writing this book,… I had a naive gut feeling that all
was still salvageable…. But I think I underestimated how severely we
have damaged our oceans and their inhabitants. I now think that we
have pushed them too far, past some mysterious tipping point that came
and went without fanfare, with no red circle on the calendar and
without us knowing the precise moment it all became irreversible. I
now sincerely believe that it is only a matter of time before the
oceans as we know them and need them to be become very different
places indeed. "
Just thought you all would like to know. We don't have to wait for
the sun to go nova. Pretty soon it will be all jellies in the water
and cockroaches on land. Plus, of course, the massive growth of
bacteria.
This is particular important news for all those who believe that
increased complexity is the only true destiny of evolution. And
especially for all those who believe the intelligence of our human
brain is the be-all and end-all of evolutionary complexity. These
guys don't even have a central nervous system at all! What they do
have is an incredibly rapid and efficient reproductive strategy
(actually, multiple strategies), extremely efficient energy
metabolism, and the ability to live and thrive in waters of low oxygen
content and higher acidity -- just what we are making our oceans into.
Is it really rising temperatures and acidic conditions? They must be
exploiting a food source that they did not have before. More are making
it to adulthood and breeding. My guess is that they are becoming more
successful in their juvenile stages for some reason.
Decrease in coral reefs that compete for the same food sources? Have we
removed the predators that eat them at this stage? Is this just some
weird cycle?
If it persists, my guess is that we will soon have an industry
exploiting this protein source. Currently there is no jellyfish fishery
that I know of, but if we want fertilizer and fish food for aquaculture
we will need a cheap protein source. It would be nice if we had one
that wouldn't be easily fished out like sardines, and menhaden have been
in the past.
IIUC most jellies eat plankton. This is the same food source as
sardines and menhaden. There's an irony in there somewhere.
We could be eating their competitors.
Post by jillery
Post by RonO
Chicken feed used to have fish meal in it and the public benefited by
having chicken higher in omega 3 fatty acids than they get now because
we over fished the resources.
Is it known that jellyfish are high in omega 3 fatty acids?
My guess is that they are higher. Omega 3 are used to make membranes
more fluid. At most ocean temperatures my guess is that they need a
higher percentage than we do because we maintain a higher body
temperature and the lipid are more fluid without the kinked fatty acid
side chains.
That would be your guess but I looked it up. The commercially
available jellyfish-as-food has less than 0.01% fat content and the
whole jellyfish is from 0.005% to 0.2% lipid. Sardines may be 10% fat.
There is no doubt that jelly fish are a higher percentage water than a
vertebrate fish, but we would be talking about percentage in lipid and
fat being higher. You expect a higher percentage of omega 3 in that
0.2% lipid. It sounds like a million of tons of jellyfish would be
equivalent to a lot less than 100,000 tons of sardines in terms of lipid
and fat.

I can tell you from experience in getting mitochondria out of Cnidarians
that they have so much more water in them that we were trying to
dessicate them while trying to keep them alive before grinding them up
or the volumes needed to be processed were hard to deal with.

Ron Okimoto
Walter Bushell
2013-09-22 22:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Norman
The current New York Review of Books has an article titled "They're
Taking Over" by Tim Flannery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/sep/26/jellyfish-theyre-taking-o
ver/
This is a fascinating review of the book "Stung! The Jellyfish Blooms
and the Future of the Ocean" by Lisa-ann Gershwin which should be
equally fascinating.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo15220175.html
But right now the real top predator is the Infernal Revenue Service.
--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
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